Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 14)

[KJung]

Hey guys...

I need some guidance and opinions..I have never played an RA..well except Yohanns at NAMM but not enough to get a feel and appreciate its tone..

I want another AC but i dont think the LM is it...Can any of you who have experience with the RA line chime in...How the RA compares to an LG or an LM. I have been converted to a 60s spacing with my LG. (i sold my LOVED 77 Jazz after it getting no love) When i had my LM it was GREAT but it didnt have the MAGIC that my LG has.

so like i said..any and all experiences and opinions on this subject would GREATLY be appreciated!

Mike X

I've owned and gigged all three, and they are all great for what they are, and they all sound quite different. There are clips of the RA, the LM and the LG up on my iComposition site that you can access through the 'homepage' link on my profile.

The LM and LG bring to mind what most of us think of as 'classic' tones, and the decision between those two is pretty straight forward (just like deciding on a 60's style or 70's style Fender.... pretty clear, and pretty easy for most to know their tone preference between those two).

The RA is a different thing altogether. As much as I love the Sadowsky 'bastard' spec of ash/maple with 60's spacing, which gives you the brightness and grind of ash/maple, but more punch and growl that approaches a 60's style instrument (wonderful spec if you aren't looking for 'vintage accuracy), the early 70's spec of an alder body with 70's pickup placement and a maple neck is a totally different thing, and seems to 'cancel out' both the growl of the typical 60's instrument, and the grind up top of the typical 70's instrument.

There is, of course, nothing wrong with this, and as you can hear from my clip, they sound great. However, to my ear, they are warm and smoother down low, very polite in the upper mids, and the top end sits WAY up high. I would think (at least with roundwound strings) those who like a more modern soapbar sounding boutique type vibe (MTD, etc.) would find this tone profile very nice.... smooth, crisp, wide. It still sounds like a J bass, but a much smoother voicing than either of earlier 60's spec, or the later 70's spec that have come to define what most call the 'classic' J bass tones.

IMO and IME. All three models sound VERY different, and there are many who love each one.

 

[esoxhntr]

Hey guys...

I need some guidance and opinions..I have never played an RA..well except Yohanns at NAMM but not enough to get a feel and appreciate its tone..

I want another AC but i dont think the LM is it...Can any of you who have experience with the RA line chime in...How the RA compares to an LG or an LM. I have been converted to a 60s spacing with my LG. (i sold my LOVED 77 Jazz after it getting no love) When i had my LM it was GREAT but it didnt have the MAGIC that my LG has.

so like i said..any and all experiences and opinions on this subject would GREATLY be appreciated!

Mike X

IMO the RA is the best thing Jimmy makes. It is an incredibly versatile instrument, and I think the best gigging bass of the 3 models (LG, RA, LM). Tonally it sits pretty much in the middle of the LG and LM, and will get you to about 85-90% of the tonal characteristics of either one. This bass is for you if you consistently find yourself in situations where you have to play varied styles of music. To me, it also has passive tone to die for - less compressed than the LM, more presence and bite than the LG. The RA is quite literally the best 5 string bass I have ever played.

My only caution is that if your tonal model is pretty narrowly focussed towards the early/mid 60's, or mid/late 70's, then either an LG or an LM are your best bet. To me, the RA does way more of the what the LG and LM do than what what the LG and LM can cover of each other. For most guys it really does cover the spectrum and is a perfect choice.

One last thing - if you go RA, I strongly recommend Nitro, poly does something to alder that I'm not crazy about. To me, it compresses the tone and doesn't sit quite as well in a live mix. Just my ears and experience talking there, YMMV.

 

[64jazzbass]

IMO the RA is the best thing Jimmy makes. It is an incredibly versatile instrument, and I think the best gigging bass of the 3 models (LG, RA, LM). Tonally it sits pretty much in the middle of the LG and LM, and will get you to about 85-90% of the tonal characteristics of either one. This bass is for you if you consistently find yourself in situations where you have to play varied styles of music. To me, it also has passive tone to die for - less compressed than the LM, more presence and bite than the LG. The RA is quite literally the best 5 string bass I have ever played.

My only caution is that if your tonal model is pretty narrowly focussed towards the early/mid 60's, or mid/late 70's, then either an LG or an LM are your best bet. To me, the RA does way more of the what the LG and LM do than what what the LG and LM can cover of each other. For most guys it really does cover the spectrum and is a perfect choice.

One last thing - if you go RA, I strongly recommend Nitro, poly does something to alder that I'm not crazy about. To me, it compresses the tone and doesn't sit quite as well in a live mix. Just my ears and experience talking there, YMMV.

Although I agree with most of these observations, I think in a live mix it would be hard to distinguish a poly finish from a nitro. If you can, then your ears belong in the Smithsonian!

 

[peterpalmieri]

Although I agree with most of these observations, I think in a live mix it would be hard to distinguish a poly finish from a nitro. If you can, then your ears belong in the Smithsonian!

Comments in poor taste, IMO!

Esoxhntr states a judgement based on his real world experience, including many AC basses.

You come along and "think" with no experience to base your opinion on.

I'm not going crazy about this and understand why you may doubt but esoxhntr has one of the longest lists of AC experience on TB. Blowing him off without exception is silly.

 

[west*coast*bass]

Comments in poor taste, IMO!

Esoxhntr states a judgement based on his real world experience, including many AC basses.

You come along and "think" with no experience to base your opinion on.

I'm not going crazy about this and understand why you may doubt but esoxhntr has one of the longest lists of AC experience on TB. Blowing him off without exception is silly.

I have real world experience and I also think that the subtle differences between nitro and poly would be extremely difficult to detect in a live mix as well. In my 32 years of playing I have owned almost everything, including AC - in a live band setting there is just too much going on sonically to detect those differences.

 

[peterpalmieri]

I have real world experience and I also think that the subtle differences between nitro and poly would be extremely difficult to detect in a live mix as well. In my 32 years of playing I have owned almost everything, including AC - in a live band setting there is just too much going on sonically to detect those differences.

I don't disagree with you. It's just for someone to say "I think" with no supporting reasons is in poor taste in a thread where people don't throw out BS.

 

[west*coast*bass]

I don't disagree with you. It's just for someone to say "I think" with no supporting reasons is in poor taste in a thread where people don't throw out BS.

Gotcha...but the post seemed pretty innocent to me.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Gotcha...but the post seemed pretty innocent to me.

As I said I'm not going crazy about this.

Esoxhntr said. "One last thing - if you go RA, I strongly recommend Nitro, poly does something to alder that I'm not crazy about. To me, it compresses the tone and doesn't sit quite as well in a live mix. Just my ears and experience talking there, YMMV."

To me that's pretty darn specific. When someone else comes back and says again "I think" and sights no experience it's just silly. Kinda like me walking into a group of nuclear physicists and saying "I think"..…

 

[64jazzbass]

I don't disagree with you. It's just for someone to say "I think" with no supporting reasons is in poor taste in a thread where people don't throw out BS.

I do have supporting reasons. I have played professionally for 37 years in just about every live situation possible. I have known Jimmy for years and tried his basses in the prototype stage as well as finished product from new York to his newer "L.A" models. I own one of his "P" basses and have played a few of his Jazz basses live. I can say unequivocally that it would be impossible to tell a nitro finished bass vs. poly in a live mix. If you think my comments are BS, then you missed the point of my thread. I said if the poster can hear the difference live, then he has great ears. I can't hear the difference personally. Switch to decaf man!

 

[Andrew Jones]

The whole "Live,in the mix" argument is ridiculous,,,we all know that in that environment all bets are off.... but we don't play SX's so obviously we accept that,,,why do we take exception to some things and not others????


This is pure speculation but IMHO the real bennies of nitro show over years.. that the breathing qualities allow the wood to age differently.. of corse to counter, if the primary thing is moister content then if your selecting well aged wood to start it's minimal...

That is besides my motivational point of view which is. When cooking in the kitchen and your trying to emulate a recipe, You use the same ingredients.

Just MHO.


Aj

 

[esoxhntr]

Although I agree with most of these observations, I think in a live mix it would be hard to distinguish a poly finish from a nitro. If you can, then your ears belong in the Smithsonian!

No, my ears belong on my head - for the moment it's where I need them most. And I'm actually surprised that others don't hear the differences live - I find that a much better way to hear how things are working. In this particular instance (nitro vs. poly), I find the big difference is that nitro is more present in the mids so I feel like I'm getting more punch and warmth. I call it traction - I have more control over attacks and dynamics, and have to work less hard to get them. Seems like a minute thing, but it's of critical importance to me.

Sorry you can't appreciate the difference. I'm not sure it justifies making smart a$$ remarks about other people's hearing, unless of course you're trying to pass off your "Smithsonian" comment as something other than sarcastic.

 

[MikeXbass]

Guys i appreciate the info...didnt mean to start any wars.
Esoxhntr...i think i would definately get nitro.

The biggest thing im lookin for is a compliment to my LG5 classic supreme. Its AMAZING at cutting through and having incredible body. I do at times feel its a bit "raw" which can be good or bad...depending on your sonic goals.
I want a bit more refined sound. Does that make sense..? But im definately not looking to move my LG EVER!! haha
But i do want to do more research on this.

THANKS AGAIN!

PS. If jonno comes across this thread..id like your take as well. Being that we owned the same LM. You have an idea of what im talkin bout.

 

[esoxhntr]

No problem Mike, but you didn't start anything... that is until you said "refined"...

 

[Andrew Jones]

You may want to try a different pre.. or string,,,that would be the first place I'd start if I wanted the first steps away from the sound of the axe. Just run it passive through a short cable into a say,,,a sadowsky (blasphemy!) or some other more modern pre and see if You like that direction.


Aj

 

[Andrew Jones]

Speaking of Blasphomy,,,,, I've been considering modding one of my LG4's P/J !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

can you say fralin

 

[esoxhntr]

The whole "Live,in the mix" argument is ridiculous,,,we all know that in that environment all bets are off.... but we don't play SX's so obviously we accept that,,,why do we take exception to some things and not others????


This is pure speculation but IMHO the real bennies of nitro show over years.. that the breathing qualities allow the wood to age differently.. of corse to counter, if the primary thing is moister content then if your selecting well aged wood to start it's minimal...

That is besides my motivational point of view which is. When cooking in the kitchen and your trying to emulate a recipe, You use the same ingredients.

Just MHO.


Aj

I want to be real clear about this - I'm not talking about your FOH sound in a theatre/stage situation. I'm talking about gigs/performances/situations (usually smaller venues) where you are hearing your instrument and amp combo in relation to the other players and instruments is a big deal. Like I said, normal gigging situations, for normal working guys and gals who are in charge of being their own sound tech/engineer.

Love your comment about the kitchen AJ.

 

[MikeXbass]

Well i will say this..i dont wanna TOUCH the sound on my LG5..its exactly what i want from it. Just curious about experiences of you guys...its helping me figure out what direction i should be headed towards my next AC.

Seeing yalls new axes is making me wanna reach for my wallet and give jimmy a call..
Hahaha

 

[Andrew Jones]

I'm not suggesting you touch it...K maybe new strings means touching it....

BUT

What if you got just what you were after by running through a different pre,,,,

Then you just a get a Coppolo out board and that pre,,,AB box and bamm.... There's your old and new sounds.


BTW honestly,,I believe I've had more of these Basses come through my hands than most people on this board.. I know I don't post often but,, I know these things pretty well.



Aj

 

[Vic]

Well i will say this..i dont wanna TOUCH the sound on my LG5..its exactly what i want from it. Just curious about experiences of you guys...its helping me figure out what direction i should be headed towards my next AC.

Seeing yalls new axes is making me wanna reach for my wallet and give jimmy a call..
Hahaha

Well, not to hurt Jimmy's sales, but I played my LG last night, and I really can't imagine improving on that from my personal prefs. Every time I play that bass, I'm like, "done". I probably love my LG as much as Ken loves his infallible LM.

 

[esoxhntr]

I'm not suggesting you touch it...K maybe new strings means touching it....

BUT

What if you got just what you were after by running through a different pre,,,,

Then you just a get a Coppolo out board and that pre,,,AB box and bamm.... There's your old and new sounds.


BTW honestly,,I believe I've had more of these Basses come through my hands than most people on this board.. I know I don't post often but,, I know these things pretty well.



Aj

I wish you did post here more AJ - I doubt anybody has had his hands on more Alleva Coppolo 4 strings than you have. I think it's important to have the experienced members of the "famiglia" pipe up from time to time as it helps eliminate some of the guess work for those who are interested but have less access.

I'm on AC #6 now. The first four were 5 string instruments, and it took me 3 years to figure out that I was never going to excel with a 5 string. Number five was a beautiful black LG4 with matching headstock, but it was finished in poly and didn't quite have the sound I was looking for. Number 6 is the spalted LG4, and it is a very unique instrument in a number of respects.

We are lucky up here in Toronto; there is quite a collection of AC basses, and a number of guys who get together occasionally to play, and experiment a bit. All in all, I've had my hands on almost two dozen of these by now. We change bridges, strings, necks, do recordings, play with setups, etc., etc. It is really interesting to hang out for an afternoon of experimentation and experience these changes first hand. Some are subtle, some not subtle at all.

I try to post less and less here, and try even harder to have something useful to say, unless I'm kibbitzing with Kirk, or Mitch. I also try not to speak up unless asked. I spoke up about the RA because I had the first one, and have probably lived with one longer than most. So when I talk about a bridge, or a finish, or a neck sounding different, it's because I've tried it and am reporting on the effect, and because somebody asked.

In this particular case, I added the bit about the nitro because my experience has taught me that while poly really brings something to the table with the LM, it detracts from the RA (and the LG). You won't hear it in a big PA, but in the rehearsal hall, orchestra pit, small/medium gigs with little no FOH support, and recording studio you will hear a difference. With twenty-some-odd AC basses played under the bridge under fairly controlled conditions, I think I'm qualified to speak my mind. Again, YMMV.

By the way, a freebie for all AC jazz-style owners, put foam under your pickups NOW. It makes a really big difference. Or maybe my Smithsonian-esque ears are full of peanut butter.

Now returning to my regularly scheduled Canadian Thanksgiving dinner with the in-laws. Help.