Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 14)

[Chef]

what diff do you hear with foam under the pickups?

i did that right away, as I couldn't get them high enough when i first got the bass...so I don't have any "before" experience.

My LG5 is Inca silver nitro with an indain rw neck...fwiw...

 

[Andrew Jones]

Oh but you forget that I've owned 2 Fivers as well and have played 3 more....

One Fiver I owned was the RA5 the Jonno has now...


6 huh??? I quess I only have you by one..... That's a lot of AC's.


But really I feel the majority of my knowledge comes from hanging with my good buddy Wolf Ginandes who's a luthier and a fender collector. He's been around fenders forever and is wealth of knowledge.

A lot of the reason I don't really post much is that I type like crap. So all the thing I'd like to get out and say,,,It just takes for ever to organize it and correct the English ect.What Kjung just rocked out would take me a hour,,,





Aj

 

[64jazzbass]

No, my ears belong on my head - for the moment it's where I need them most. And I'm actually surprised that others don't hear the differences live - I find that a much better way to hear how things are working. In this particular instance (nitro vs. poly), I find the big difference is that nitro is more present in the mids so I feel like I'm getting more punch and warmth. I call it traction - I have more control over attacks and dynamics, and have to work less hard to get them. Seems like a minute thing, but it's of critical importance to me.

Sorry you can't appreciate the difference. I'm not sure it justifies making smart a$$ remarks about other people's hearing, unless of course you're trying to pass off your "Smithsonian" comment as something other than sarcastic.

Actually it wasn't meant to be a "smart ass remark". It was more of a sideways compliment. I can appreciate the difference between nitro and poly as I own both and have played both, both vintage and modern. But I appreciate the difference from an aesthetic standpoint, or as a subtle acoustic standpoint in the studio or bedroom. In my opinion it is a non-issue live and I would bet my 64' jazz bass that no one in the audience no matter who they were could tell the difference between the two. As a famous luthier who occasionally visits Talkbass told me when discussing these types of disagreements: "Shut up and play your bass!!" Single coil vs. HB, maple vs. rosewood, ash vs. alder, etc., etc, it really is moot in a live context because there are too many variables and no one's ears are that good. Now, if you like a certain finish or grain, or wood, or whatever and it floats your boat then that is great. More power to you. I think my original post was taken as a slam and it wasn't meant to be one.

 

[peterpalmieri]

..........Single coil vs. HB, maple vs. rosewood, ash vs. alder, etc., etc, it really is moot in a live context because there are too many variables and no one's ears are that good. Now, if you like a certain finish or grain, or wood, or whatever and it floats your boat then that is great. More power to you. I think my original post was taken as a slam and it wasn't meant to be one.

As I originally suspected you are in the wrong place. Most guys that hang around this thread enjoy and appreciate these nuances. Realizing musicianship is #1 doesn't mean the discussions lack value or importance. The fact that the guy in the back of the room half crocked can't tell the difference between my AC and an SX is of little concern.

 

[narud]

unless youve had the same bass in both poly and nitro, its a stretch to attribute the tone difference to the paint when youre talking about two different basses. my 62 jazz has been finished in nitro and poly. its now nitro and i cant say there was some opening up of tone that happened.

the poly bass could have just had a piece of alder that didnt have the tonal characteristics you cared for. the best sounding lg ive played was andrew's white bass. i think that one was poly right?

 

[esoxhntr]

unless youve had the same bass in both poly and nitro, its a stretch to attribute the tone difference to the paint when youre talking about two different basses. my 62 jazz has been finished in nitro and poly. its now nitro and i cant say there was some opening up of tone that happened.

the poly bass could have just had a piece of alder that didnt have the tonal characteristics you cared for. the best sounding lg ive played was andrew's white bass. i think that one was poly right?

Well Joe, in one instance that was the case - same bass in poly and nitro - but I wouldn't attribute that sort of sonic difference in a one off scenario. It's a repeated characteristic that I've heard from a number of Jimmy's instruments; enough so that a bit of a pattern has evolved. Fact is, I've heard a difference and developed a preference, and it's not based on the "nitro is too expensive" argument that I hear on this forum an awful lot.

If there is one thing I can say about an Alleva Coppolo product, it is that they all seem to do exactly what they are supposed to do in terms of the materials used and the tone goals. And, they seem to be very consistent tonally, so that it is easy to monkey with them and hear what the tonal changes are, and what they can be attributed to.

As for your 62, I can't - nor would I - speak to what you can or can't hear. I can only respect the fact that you dig that bass and don't hear a difference. Your bass, your ears, your opinion. I can only speak for myself and my experience, which tells me that nitro on an alder bodied Alleva Coppolo has a subtle sonic difference which makes a big difference to me. That's all I'm saying.

 

[esoxhntr]

Oh but you forget that I've owned 2 Fivers as well and have played 3 more....

One Fiver I owned was the RA5 the Jonno has now...


6 huh??? I quess I only have you by one..... That's a lot of AC's.


But really I feel the majority of my knowledge comes from hanging with my good buddy Wolf Ginandes who's a luthier and a fender collector. He's been around fenders forever and is wealth of knowledge.

A lot of the reason I don't really post much is that I type like crap. So all the thing I'd like to get out and say,,,It just takes for ever to organize it and correct the English ect.What Kjung just rocked out would take me a hour,,,





Aj

Actually, I did remember the Black RA, didn't know that you had another 5 as well. But I certainly do remember - and drool over - that white LG4. Dibs, okay?

I feel the same as you in that I have been fortunate enough to associate with and learn from some true tone fanatics who are kind enough to share their expertise with me. I do not claim, to be any sort of expert, but I can hear and appreciate tonal differences, and I again have been fortunate enough to be in on some serious experimentation with strings, bridges, necks, setups, yada, yada, yada...

Ironically, all this fuss over an instrument (the RA) that I do not even own anymore. For now, anyway...

 

[Andrew Jones]

You'll hate to hear but I am seriously thinking about making that one a P/J.



Aj

 

[esoxhntr]

what diff do you hear with foam under the pickups?

i did that right away, as I couldn't get them high enough when i first got the bass...so I don't have any "before" experience.

My LG5 is Inca silver nitro with an indain rw neck...fwiw...

What I hear is a bit more aggression and a fuller sound, particularly from the neck pickup. This is important to me, 'cuz I'm trying my best to lighten up my touch - lower strings, straighter neck, etc. - so within reason I need to get everything I can from the strings and pickups.

Jimmy's pickups are really good sounding, but I don't feel that I got the best out of a couple of the basses that I sold because the pickups weren't set high enough. Mind you, since they were 5 string basses, I would have sold them anyway.

 

[esoxhntr]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chef]

so it's not some mystic quality of the foam, but, a pickup height thing?

i like mine pretty high, generally...

What I hear is a bit more aggression and a fuller sound, particularly from the neck pickup. This is important to me, 'cuz I'm trying my best to lighten up my touch - lower strings, straighter neck, etc. - so within reason I need to get everything I can from the strings and pickups.

Jimmy's pickups are really good sounding, but I don't feel that I got the best out of a couple of the basses that I sold because the pickups weren't set high enough. Mind you, since they were 5 string basses, I would have sold them anyway.

 

[KJung]

Guys i appreciate the info...didnt mean to start any wars.
Esoxhntr...i think i would definately get nitro.

The biggest thing im lookin for is a compliment to my LG5 classic supreme. Its AMAZING at cutting through and having incredible body. I do at times feel its a bit "raw" which can be good or bad...depending on your sonic goals.
I want a bit more refined sound. Does that make sense..? But im definately not looking to move my LG EVER!! haha
But i do want to do more research on this.

THANKS AGAIN!

PS. If jonno comes across this thread..id like your take as well. Being that we owned the same LM. You have an idea of what im talkin bout.

Per my post above, if you are looking for smoother and less growl versus the LG (your 'less raw' comment) and MUCH less grind up top versus the LM, you might VERY much like the RA. Of course, as a J Bass fan, I live for the growl of my LG and the grind of my LM. However, if you do really have the tone goal you describe... smoother, more polite, creamier (as again you can hear in my RA clip if you have a decent playback system), that might really float your boat. They don't 'burp' like the LG, and they don't grind like the LM. However, you've posted above that you don't play your 70's Fender any more, and didn't dig your LM, so that model is off the table, and you already have the LG thing covered.

I wouldn't bother with the high cost and fragile Nitro finish myself. As posted above, with the very dry, old wood Jimmy uses, the tonal differences would be very, very slight, if any at all (even over time). Many comments from guys who refinish the original, fragile Nitro finishes on their FBasses with modern, thin Poly and notice no difference at all. IMO and IME there.

 

[KJung]

so it's not some mystic quality of the foam, but, a pickup height thing?

i like mine pretty high, generally...

I haven't heard anything in all the A-C's I've played that would motivate me to vary from Jimmy's stock pickup height myself. The bridge pickups are about as high as one would want to go, and while the neck pickup 'looks' a bit low, the volume balance between the two has been perfect on the 6 or 7 of these I've spent time with and the two that I currently own.

However, raising the pickups (I guess primarily the neck pickup) surely would significantly change the tone and balance between the pickups.

 

[jonno1707]

But really I feel the majority of my knowledge comes from hanging with my good buddy Wolf Ginandes who's a luthier and a fender collector. He's been around fenders forever and is wealth of knowledge.
Aj

AJ
Are you referring to the same Wolf that used to run the repair shop under Berklee I think it was MISC??? If so he is a great cat,a very talented luthier and worked on all my basses while I was there...
Oh and our RA is fantastic in every way...Sure it lays in a tonal space between the LG and the LM and to me that's all good and has an incredible chamelian like tone working wonderfully well in just about any musical style.
I use to carry both LM and LG to gig's but now if I show up with just my RA which I do frequently I'm always confident that I will cop all of the tones in both varieties...I think of it as Jimmy's Swiss army knife...

 

[MAURO_ISOLATION]

it's a hard wait...

 

[Chef]

What's stock pickup height, and how does he measure it?
(and of course, how you set your action/string height is gonna have an effect on that...)


thx-alan

fwiw, i have mine set more or less to the Sadowsky setup specs listed on Roger's website. I *really* think it's great when manufacturers publish their setup specs. I don't think Alleva has that info on their website.

I haven't heard anything in all the A-C's I've played that would motivate me to vary from Jimmy's stock pickup height myself. The bridge pickups are about as high as one would want to go, and while the neck pickup 'looks' a bit low, the volume balance between the two has been perfect on the 6 or 7 of these I've spent time with and the two that I currently own.

However, raising the pickups (I guess primarily the neck pickup) surely would significantly change the tone and balance between the pickups.

 

[peterpalmieri]

^I also use the Sadowsky specs for a starting point of the pickup height, which obviously needs to be adjusted with the string height. Once I have them set to those heights I used my ear to dial in what I thought sounded best.

That being said it's a one time and done kind of setup. I was able to achieve that without stuffing anything under the pickups.

 

[YCBass]

What's stock pickup height, and how does he measure it?
(and of course, how you set your action/string height is gonna have an effect on that...)


thx-alan

fwiw, i have mine set more or less to the Sadowsky setup specs listed on Roger's website. I *really* think it's great when manufacturers publish their setup specs. I don't think Alleva has that info on their website.

Honestly, I think it's because there is no "specified" measurement... At least I've never seen Jimmy bust out a ruler and check... He just sets them by looking then listening. Since I've been at the shop he's been having me double check for anything "weird" (tonally) and if so, I make adjustments and have him take a listen.

 

[Chef]

I'd sure be curious to know "what seems more or less correct" to you guys, if you could measure a few properly set up LG5's.

fwiw, I measure pickup height by fretting the string at the last fret, and measuring from the top of the pickup body to the bottom of the string...

My pickups generally end up set such that when fretting that last fret, and pressing down on the string as though I were digging in pretty hard, "the string just barely misses the pole pieces."

This also works out to more or less the Sadowsky setup specs, fwiw.

Some basses with really, really hot pickups (like the G&L MFD humbuckers, DarkStars) I set a little lower than that if having them that high messes with things.

 

[64jazzbass]

I wouldn't bother with the high cost and fragile Nitro finish myself. As posted above, with the very dry, old wood Jimmy uses, the tonal differences would be very, very slight, if any at all (even over time). Many comments from guys who refinish the original, fragile Nitro finishes on their FBasses with modern, thin Poly and notice no difference at all. IMO and IME there.[/QUOTE]

Finally, a voice of reason.