Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 21)

[boristhespider9]

Is "luthiery" a word?

Still really enjoying this discussion.

I've had great experiences with Lakland. My USA basses from them are awesome and Leo and Brian have been great.

However, if Leo or Brian (or the owner JP) posted the response that Jimmy did, I'd have to say that I'd very disappointed and hesitant to buy more from the company despite my positive experiences.

Thankfully, I don't anticipate that happening...

 

[esoxhntr]

And there's the problem - "WE" don't know what happened. From reading the original post, "WE" get a picture, but frankly it's only from one point of view. Addison knows what happened - from his side. Jimmy knows what happened - from his side. "WE" really don't know, aside from making assumptions - and of course assumptions are the mother of all ****ups.

Again - I certainly feel for Addison and his disappointing experience, but I also know that his experience with Alleva Coppolo and my experiences are diametrically opposed, so I have to assume (that word again) that I don't have all the information, and that the situation is best left to those directly involved.

Obviously, those who have no experience dealing with Jimmy, and those who like to gripe about the cost of boutique instruments are totally willing to break out the pitchforks and rope and start a crusade. Not entirely fair. Nor is it fair to receive a substandard instrument at 5K.

I kind of agree with Vic on this, it was a whole lot of ugly that really had no chance to end gracefully, just in differing degrees of ugly. I think it's time for everyone to learn what they can here and move on accordingly.

Oh, and if this happened to me, I would take it up exclusively with Jimmy. Talkbass would not be involved. Witness the stupidity that just occurred.

And if this happened to you?

Just curious.

 

[narud]

Oh, and if this happened to me, I would take it up exclusively with Jimmy. Talkbass would not be involved. Witness the stupidity that just occurred.

he tried to take it up with jimmy and was told no refunds on multiple occasions. i bought a fodera that was at namm from a now defunct dealer back in 2000 or so. i was told that they had it for a while but it wasnt moving so they discounted it. it was supposed to be still as new. i got it and it had a large area on the neck where the finish had worn down to the wood. they wouldnt take any more off for the damage since they said they already discounted it (fine) but didnt want to take it back either. if they had disclosed the damage i woudnt have bought it(the neck needed to be refinished). i had to post something similar to pressure them into letting me return it. sometimes its the only recourse you have.

 

[CTC564]

Seems I remember Addison TRYING to work this out with JC...to no avail

Under those circumstances, it's my opinion that he posted his experience more from a disappointed client's perspective than a "A-C SUCKS AND THIS IS WHY..."

It's also my opinion that JC handled this AS BADLY AS HE POSSIBLY could have other than offering the refund

 

[boristhespider9]

And there's the problem - "WE" don't know what happened. From reading the original post, "WE" get a picture, but frankly it's only from one point of view. Addison knows what happened - from his side. Jimmy knows what happened - from his side. "WE" really don't know, aside from making assumptions - and of course assumptions are the mother of all ****ups.

Again - I certainly feel for Addison and his disappointing experience, but I also know that his experience with Alleva Coppolo and my experiences are diametrically opposed, so I have to assume (that word again) that I don't have all the information, and that the situation is best left to those directly involved.

Obviously, those who have no experience dealing with Jimmy, and those who like to gripe about the cost of boutique instruments are totally willing to break out the pitchforks and rope and start a crusade. Not entirely fair. Nor is it fair to receive a substandard instrument at 5K.

I kind of agree with Vic on this, it was a whole lot of ugly that really had no chance to end gracefully, just in differing degrees of ugly. I think it's time for everyone to learn what they can here and move on accordingly.

Oh, and if this happened to me, I would take it up exclusively with Jimmy. Talkbass would not be involved. Witness the stupidity that just occurred.

Aside from people supposedly contacting Jimmy directly to gripe about the situation, what occurred that was so bad? Even that's not such a big deal. If it was, we'd still have "New Coke"!

And if Jimmy was in the right, he could have briefly and succinctly explained why, supported by FACTS. Instead, he chose the low road by positing speculative and unsupported theories.

 

[joeyl]

Oh, and if this happened to me, I would take it up exclusively with Jimmy. Talkbass would not be involved. Witness the stupidity that just occurred.

well, I had a problem with a bridge that I received. It had casting marks, huge file marks on the saddles and there was still metal shavings hanging around the string retainers. I contacted the manufacturer by email and sent a picture. He replied the next day and said that he did not know how this happened and that I definitely should not have received an item this rough. He overnight-ed another bridge and that was it. Had he told me that I was full of crap and that he could not really see what was wrong with the bridge, I may have taken to TB, if not just to vent and warn others...

 

[leona1]

get over it folks!
problem fixed.

 

[Fuzzbass]

And there's the problem - "WE" don't know what happened. From reading the original post, "WE" get a picture, but frankly it's only from one point of view. Addison knows what happened - from his side. Jimmy knows what happened - from his side. "WE" really don't know, aside from making assumptions - and of course assumptions are the mother of all ****ups.

You're not the first who has conjectured that there could be more to the story, however this case is clear. There are VERY few assumptions to be made: Addison took pains to carefully document the condition of the bass, and the interactions with AC. The instrument was subpar (to be overly polite), as were Jimmy's responses (to be painfully polite).

It's clear that Jimmy doesn't always behave this way. Likewise, the instrument in question is an aberration compared to other AC basses I've seen here on TB. So, it's fair to argue that perhaps Jimmy's had a bad month for whatever reason(s); he isn't usually like this. But it's incorrect to speculate that we really don't know what happened here.

Maybe some folks haven't seen the photos and video... the thread's been closed, after all. But I'd be surprised if one person saw them and agreed with Jimmy's claim that the defects were just light playing wear. I'd be surprised if anyone would be satisfied after paying $5k for that bass. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I wouldn't take it for free.

As Jared Lash said, defending the indefensible is only keeping the issue alive.

 

[Rockin Mike]

And there's the problem - "WE" don't know what happened. From reading the original post, "WE" get a picture, but frankly it's only from one point of view.

photographs

Oh, and if this happened to me, I would take it up exclusively with Jimmy. Talkbass would not be involved. Witness the stupidity that just occurred.

without Talkbass, Jimmy would not have given the refund. addison did try to resolve it privately and Jimmy refused.

 

[FunkRenegade]

How could people still defend JC, when the actual proof is in the bass? Those who are giving JC benefit of doubt would stir up a $hitstorm, if it happened to them.

Mistakes do happen and are forgiven, but JC dug a deeper hole by trying to blame it on Addison.

 

[Chef]

Man.

This is all so two days ago.

 

[Vic]

Man.

This is all so two days ago.

+1

I sure would love to let this go.

 

[joeyl]

+1

I sure would love to let this go.

I was browsing his website and facebook and found out a few things: that he is younger than I thought he was, he lost his dog last year (I love dogs) and had some kind of fundraiser for a veterinary association, and that he is working by himself on a few nice instruments and that he probably needs some sleep. This is probably how most people know him and that would make his talkbass post totally out of character.

 

[Vic]

I was browsing his website and facebook and found out a few things: that he is younger than I thought he was, he lost his dog last year (I love dogs) and had some kind of fundraiser for a veterinary association, and that he is working by himself on a few nice instruments and that he probably needs some sleep. This is probably how most people know him and that would make his talkbass post totally out of character.

Every time I've ever interacted with Jimmy, it's always been pleasant. FWIW.

 

[Brad Johnson]

No, I really do.

You misread my post. I was starting with "when a scenario gets to where this one got".

I was not getting into the moot (and obvious I think) case of doing everything possible to avoid letting it get there, because it did.

And in all honesty, there are still cases where you just can't prevent it, so you still have to have this case covered. Thankfully, it's rare if you're good with CS, however.

I thought you meant prior to his response, Vic. I agree, after you've really stuck your foot in it is too late. Calling shenanigans on Addison was pretty incredible, I don't care how upset someone might be. Any situation like that screams for stepping back, taking a deep breath and if nothing else asking yourself "How will this help ME?".

Then wait a while and ask yourself again. Heat of the moment and all that.


My point was that after the initial problem had gotten to the point where Addison felt compelled to post about it, it wasn't too late for Jimmy to make a post that would lead to a far more positive outcome. IME IMO of course.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I was browsing his website and facebook and found out a few things: that he is younger than I thought he was, he lost his dog last year (I love dogs) and had some kind of fundraiser for a veterinary association, and that he is working by himself on a few nice instruments and that he probably needs some sleep. This is probably how most people know him and that would make his talkbass post totally out of character.

I first met Jimmy back when he was in the same building with Roger Sadowsky and thought this whole thing was out of the character with the guy I met too. That's why I said I hope everything's okay. I still do.

 

[nozkcb]

Same here. While Addison's deal was a mess, and I'm glad it's over, I personally love my AC. Also, I've dealt with Jimmy on a few occasions and have had nothing but positive experiences.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Thanks for the explanation (did you talk to him?) but what I'm asking is based on him saying he would continue to trust Jimmy. I asked if that would continue if he had received a bass like Addison's? That's all.

I had a bad experience with a person a few years back that I posted about, pretty evenhanded by all accounts. It was resolved in part because I talked about it on Talkbass. A couple of years later another TBer contacted me, started off by telling me that he had read my thread and thought I wasn't telling the truth. No problem, I get that

Then he said the same guy had just done the same thing to him. At that point I honestly had no sympathy for the guy, at least he had an idea of what might happen before his willing participation. I was sandbagged.

What he is saying is that his experience was far better with Jimmy than what most people here have posted (many of them with no direct experience with Jimmy - just anecdotal notes or pure musing).

My experience with Jimmy has been far better, too... Across multiple purchases.

I have purchased at least 6 basses from Jimmy either directly from him or through dealers. All the experiences were to the letter perfect as to what we agreed and the instruments were all superlative examples of luthiery.

Do I condone what happened on Addison's deal? No... Is Jimmy a bit eccentric? Yes... Could there be extraneous circumstances? Certainly...

What I am suggesting is that he be judged by the body of his work and not one incident.

The bottom line here is that nobody but Addison and Jimmy will ever know the full truth of what really happened. Anything beyond what their experience was is simply speculation and hyperbole (if you are not Addison or Jimmy C).

My Best,

Mike

 

[esoxhntr]

Every time I've ever interacted with Jimmy, it's always been pleasant. FWIW.

This - and my fault for mentioning anything again. Just a shame that so many want to jump on a band wagon... Out.

 

[Brad Johnson]

And there's the problem - "WE" don't know what happened. From reading the original post, "WE" get a picture, but frankly it's only from one point of view. Addison knows what happened - from his side. Jimmy knows what happened - from his side. "WE" really don't know, aside from making assumptions - and of course assumptions are the mother of all ****ups.

Again - I certainly feel for Addison and his disappointing experience, but I also know that his experience with Alleva Coppolo and my experiences are diametrically opposed, so I have to assume (that word again) that I don't have all the information, and that the situation is best left to those directly involved.

Obviously, those who have no experience dealing with Jimmy, and those who like to gripe about the cost of boutique instruments are totally willing to break out the pitchforks and rope and start a crusade. Not entirely fair. Nor is it fair to receive a substandard instrument at 5K.

So ignore them... they're really not germaine to the issue at hand. That's what I did.

I kind of agree with Vic on this, it was a whole lot of ugly that really had no chance to end gracefully, just in differing degrees of ugly. I think it's time for everyone to learn what they can here and move on accordingly.

Oh, and if this happened to me, I would take it up exclusively with Jimmy. Talkbass would not be involved. Witness the stupidity that just occurred.

It really did have a chance, prior to Jimmy's response. I'm not sure why some aren't seeing that possibility. Like it could only end as bad or worse.

Minus the angry mob, which a poster has little control over judging by the example that Addison has set during this situation... TB is a great place to do this.

When folks take a hard "That's that... what are you going to do about it?" stance, talking about it on the internet can be a very powerful tool.

If this had happened to you, meaning everything that lead up to Addison's posting, what would you have done next? Your $5,000 on the line, you're looking at the wear through the finish and the tummy cut. Just suck it up?

I wouldn't. After I exhausted my options with the other party (and I'm almost too patient when trying to resolve a conflict), knowing what I know, I'd probably do exactly what Addison did. So far I still don't see anything that he's done that's been impugned. And yes, I did consider the other side starting with when I read the OP. I wondered how could what I saw be explained. It wasn't.