There are no double magnets. those are simply screws that adjust the height of the pole piece. one magnet per string.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
There are no double magnets. those are simply screws that adjust the height of the pole piece. one magnet per string.
Hmm there appears to be a magnet either side of the main polepieces on the back of a Darkstar/Bisonic.
It is a single coil, so I suppose the actual area of the pickup can be shrunk down as long as the width of the coil is kept the same. The second polepeices (with the screw tops) look like they are just a slightly convoluted means of adjusting the height of the main polepieces and therefore don't sense the strings at all (???).
I just got it into my head that the pickup's area was part of the tone because I saw Deadheads arguing on the internet about how jazz pickups would never cop the right tone because they only see a small section of the string. However if a Bisonic/Darkstar only senses strings with one row of polepieces then it surely cannot be the case that the pickup's area contributes to the tone.
I'm now wondering how I can re-engineer the Mickey Mouse pickups in my Dearmond to sense the strings the way a Bisonic does...
It seems a shame the "dudepit" forum is off the net now, because 90% of all threads about these pickups leads to somebody saying "this has been discussed comprehensively over on the dudepit, just go there"...
Those all look quite cool!
I'm still not sure if the original Bisonic pickups came with one magnet or two. I read that Rick Turner tried to beef up Phil and Jack's Starfire basses by adding an extra magnet to the pickups, whilst Jack has also said he added an extra magnet to his bass.
Curtis Novak has an interesting page on his website where he repairs an old Bisonic pickup. Invalid Link Removed It seems the pickup he is repairing had a magnet missing, and he added his own magnet making it a two-magnet pickup. I would imagine he knows what he is doing, although the grammar on his website is sometimes a little wanting, so perhaps I'm reading it all wrong. It seems odd that a pickup would shed a magnet, but it has happened to a telecaster pickup of mine.
However we know that mr Hammon decided to change a few features of the pickup for the Darkstar model, so perhaps his choice of using a second magnet was to copy the mods made by Rick Turner rather than a stock Bisonic pickup.
Finally, to my mind it seems odd calling the pickup a "Darkstar", as this clearly alludes to the classic Grateful Dead track, quite possible the cut on Live/Dead. Phil was always experimenting with Alembic filters and preamps, so his tone is as much a part of the filtering. He needed a pickup like a Bisonic to give him a full range of frequencies to then colour and shape, but I think his tone has quite a lot to do with what happened after the pickup senses the strings. Chris Hillman of the Byrds used a Bisonic-equipped Starfire on the intro to Eight Miles High and you would never confuse that tone with Phil's.
I'm still not sure if the original Bisonic pickups came with one magnet or two. I read that Rick Turner tried to beef up Phil and Jack's Starfire basses by adding an extra magnet to the pickups, whilst Jack has also said he added an extra magnet to his bass.
Curtis Novak has an interesting page on his website where he repairs an old Bisonic pickup. Invalid Link Removed It seems the pickup he is repairing had a magnet missing, and he added his own magnet making it a two-magnet pickup. I would imagine he knows what he is doing, although the grammar on his website is sometimes a little wanting, so perhaps I'm reading it all wrong. It seems odd that a pickup would shed a magnet, but it has happened to a telecaster pickup of mine.
However we know that mr Hammon decided to change a few features of the pickup for the Darkstar model, so perhaps his choice of using a second magnet was to copy the mods made by Rick Turner rather than a stock Bisonic pickup.
Finally, to my mind it seems odd calling the pickup a "Darkstar", as this clearly alludes to the classic Grateful Dead track, quite possible the cut on Live/Dead. Phil was always experimenting with Alembic filters and preamps, so his tone is as much a part of the filtering. He needed a pickup like a Bisonic to give him a full range of frequencies to then colour and shape, but I think his tone has quite a lot to do with what happened after the pickup senses the strings. Chris Hillman of the Byrds used a Bisonic-equipped Starfire on the intro to Eight Miles High and you would never confuse that tone with Phil's.
henry norton
Guest
The RDag pickups are pretty much spot on with the essential BiSonic architecture. The big difference is the pole adjustment took up a big space under the cover of the originals whereas the RDag's have threaded poles. There may be a very small difference but they have the laminated core, two magnets and squat single coil so should sound pretty close. I have to admit I prefer the look of the original BiSonics/Darkstars - I think the unique look was a big part of the appeal, but nobody's making them at the moment........
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
Some came with 1 magnet some came with two. I'm not sure of the time scale of this, but I had a discussion with Rick probably 18 years ago about this and he sent me some extra magnets. I also know that Fred consulted with Rick about the recreation of the Bisonic, so it's not surprising that he incorporated the two magnet concept. Rick also did some experiments here and there, including a Litz wire Bisonic.
Finally, to my mind it seems odd calling the pickup a "Darkstar", as this clearly alludes to the classic Grateful Dead track, quite possible the cut on Live/Dead. Phil was always experimenting with Alembic filters and preamps, so his tone is as much a part of the filtering. He needed a pickup like a Bisonic to give him a full range of frequencies to then colour and shape, but I think his tone has quite a lot to do with what happened after the pickup senses the strings. Chris Hillman of the Byrds used a Bisonic-equipped Starfire on the intro to Eight Miles High and you would never confuse that tone with Phil's.
I doubt you would confuse those, but at the time of Live/Dead, the only real mods to Phil's bass were the preamps on each pickup. The filters were yet to come, his bass had passive tone controls at that point. His bass rig were somewhat modded Fender Showmen. The mods were more about reliability and cleanness of tone rather than drastic tone shaping. So, the difference had to be due to something else. Like how they played the bass.
if you simply look at the original bisonic design , you'll certainly notice that 1 or 2 magnet is not the question, the frame that hold either the bobin and the magnet is already made for "TWO" magnets. If hagstrom was thinking to use only one magnet they probably would have design the pole pieces adjusting lugs a lot shorter as the only reason to make the lugs so long is to place the screws out of the magnet side, not only out of the bobin coil, but it's only a personnal suposition...
It is not that Hagstrom used one magnet at one time and two later on, or vice verse. As far as I know, Hagstrom used one magnet for the neck pickup and two magnets for the bridge pickup.
So, the difference had to be due to something else. Like how they played the bass.
Yes, that, in combination with the solid wood as opposed to Hillman's hollowbody, the eq of the amps, the strings, as well as the recording and mixing of it all.
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
Seems like a reasonable supposition, except that I've seen stock Starfires with 2 in both positions and 1 in both positions (my '67 SFII came with the latter).
Phil's Starfire is/was hollow as well. The EB3 with Bisonics obviously wasn't, but for Live/Dead, it was the Starfire.
Aha, interesting! Every Hagström Coronado I have seen (which are not many - only two) have had one magnet for the neck pickup and two for the bridge. Both from -64 I think. Maybe they made different experiments over the years with the magnets, or maybe they were short on magnets at times. To me it makes more sense with two magnets in both and with one magnet for the neck than with one in each. Then again, I put in an extra magnet in my Coronado but I can't say it made that much difference.
Your are right of course. My bad. But on Crosby's solo album it was the EB3. To my ears that's the Phil sound too - it sounds more like Live/Dead than Chris Hillman ever did with his hollowbody. And none of them ever sounded anything like Casady's hollowbody. And my Hagstrom Coronado does not sound much like Phil's EB3. And Jack playing his Epi sounds more like Jack playing his Starfire than me playing either my darkstarred Dearmond Starfire or my Coronado. One cannot expect to buy a Guild Starfire with bisonics or DS and sound like Phil or Jack. There is so much more going on. But one thing is for sure - it is impossible to squeeze a bad sound out of those pickups. I personally like my bisonics more than my DS, but both are truly fantastic pickups.
Here's something to check out. I still like the look of the old Bi-Sonics and RDag's mini's more, but interesting. I'd love to hear one in the near future.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Agreed about the look. With one of those at the neck, and RDag's mini at the bridge one would get a slightly odd looking EB3 that would sound like something completely different. At the same time, I do like the look of an ol' muddie.
But I wonder about the sound of Novak's BS. Wouldn't the chrome cover decrease the frequency range and/or otherwise alter the sound compared with the Hagström BS with plastic? Any expert thoughts on this?
I think they look ok, but they don't look like bisonics. Judging from soundclips on RDagBasses webpage they do sound very much like DarkStars (he got a clip of a DS as well to compare with).
To me, that doesn't look ok.
New surround, stacked on an old surround, different widths...sorry, I don't care for it.
Again, ymmv, and it's not my bass, so, it doesn't matter much what I think.
New surround, stacked on an old surround, different widths...sorry, I don't care for it.
Again, ymmv, and it's not my bass, so, it doesn't matter much what I think.
The person who asked for like it this way and choose this look, "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" beside this, "I guarantee the sound"
