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Club Fbass (Part 4)

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#221
Nope, both pickups were full on. And Vic's comments are interesting. I thought about doing it that way, but then thought that really none of us play our amps that way. To me the thing that was most interesting is that the GB was so clean and clear with no sound coloration. The Promethean had a very cool tone color thing happening that you couldn't completely eliminate, and that the GB couldn't emulate.

The TC could cover both grounds very well while still retaining a unique tone color...

To be honest, I wasn't totally thrilled with the end result, but I'm so tired of not getting that review done that I just went with what I had...
 
#222
Hey, I've got a question for you F-Bass guys: why do some BNF have fixed bridges instead of adjustable ones? I undestand the AC series has a fixed bridge because of the piezo pickups, but is there any advantage for the BNF?

I tried both a BNF5 and an AC5 in a store, and they're absolutely awesome. But I like being able to adjust string height without taking the bass apart, kinda ruling out the AC.
 
#223
Some guys like the fixed wooden bridge for the different tone - which is warmer/darker sounding than the brighter tone of the metal adjustable bridge. That being said, most BNF basses have the adjustable bridge. They are easier to adjust, and some have said the slightly brighter tone helps it move through the mix pretty well in live situations when playing with a full band...
 
#224
dkb said:
Vic's comments are interesting. I thought about doing it that way, but then thought that really none of us play our amps that way.
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But you pretty much HAVE to do it that way unless you are to assume everybody would make the same EQ choices you would, which is unlikely, which is the hole in your theory. As a product reviewer, you are expected to be subjective, but when doing a shootout, for it to be most effective, you have to at least start from a common baseline, which in this case, would be the "native voicing" of each head before you make any personal choices with tonal mods.

To me the thing that was most interesting is that the GB was so clean and clear with no sound coloration.

The Promethean had a very cool tone color thing happening that you couldn't completely eliminate, and that the GB couldn't emulate.

The TC could cover both grounds very well while still retaining a unique tone color...
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Here's the other thing, you make these colorization comments, but with all the EQ you have turned on, and no baseline to compare it to, it's impossible for the listener to know what the head is natively doing and what role the EQ modifications are playing.

So there you go, two reasons why starting "flat" is what I very strongly recommend... especially for a shootout. :)

IMHO at least.
 
#226
I see what Vic is saying, and I do agree that one sample flat, then one EQ'd would be more informative...

But not much.

Seriously, it wouldn't be THAT helpful.

I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer it with both, because I would, but it's kind of like saying you want to do a screen test with Angelina Jolie without any make up, and then one with.

Yeah, that definitely would be interesting, but in reality, she won't be filming without make up.

Likewise, in reality we won't be playing the heads flat either, so why not tweak them to put their best foot forward? That's the main thing we want to know about them: what will it make my bass sound like?

Donovan, I am ASSUMING, tweaked each amp as all of us would so as to bring out the best character of the baseline BASS that was used.

Remember guys, this isn't someone with a bass gear magazine doing a round up. This is a simple, 8-minute YOUTUBE video.

The mixer idea was a great one, as Vic said.

My one concern with how Donovan did it is, well, two concerns are:

1) I don't like the idea of the open mic grabbing sound. What it will pick up is percussive THWACKING that will throw off the slap tones.

2) It is possible to EQ an amp to a disadvantage in a comparison if there is a "favorite" that the reviewer would like to shine a little brighter.

I do not believe #2 is at play at all, but the all flat clip would have helped with that concern.

But seriously guys, I really don't see the lack of a flat comparison clip to be much of an issue.
 
#227
Tom7 said:
I see what Vic is saying, and I do agree that one sample flat, then one EQ'd would be more informative...

But not much.

Seriously, it wouldn't be THAT helpful.
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Then we completely disagree. Here's why...

Donovan, I am ASSUMING, tweaked each amp as all of us would so as to bring out the best character of the baseline BASS that was used.
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Based on what? We've already agreed so many times in so many threads here at TB on how different we all are at the fingers, let alone all our different basses and preferences, so I'm baffled as to how anyone could even presume this.

For a specific example, I NEVER scoop mids like that, and I know a LOT of players that would feel similarly. Sure, it sounds real sweet on a solo slap clip, but it'll absolutely kill you in a mix, especially a live one. Trust me. Been there, done that.

Remember guys, this isn't someone with a bass gear magazine doing a round up. This is a simple, 8-minute YOUTUBE video.
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Why does this matter? You can pack a lot of great info in 8 minutes, and youtube can be a fantastic resource for information. I see no reason why the length or source should have anything to do with the quality or applicability. Seriously, and IMHO Donovan is a very capable product reviewer.

2) It is possible to EQ an amp to a disadvantage in a comparison if there is a "favorite" that the reviewer would like to shine a little brighter.

I do not believe #2 is at play at all, but the all flat clip would have helped with that concern.

But seriously guys, I really don't see the lack of a flat comparison clip to be much of an issue.
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What? You're actually contradicting yourself here. Here's why... I also don't believe Donovan would do anything to intentionally taint the review, but his personal EQ choices still skew the results in favor of his personal preferences, and flat clips as a comparative baseline would assure that wouldn't be an issue, just like you said above, which is precisely my point as well.

Don't get me wrong, Donovan has my full respect and appreciation as a major resource for TB and the general bass playing community. It's just that I've done a lot of product reviews both non-professionally and now professionally, and the feedback I'm giving here draws from all that... including advice from industry peers with many more years of experience than I. This isn't just me nitpicking on someone. This is me trying to provide some friendly qualified advice just as I have benefited from in the past. If I didn't care about Donovan or his thoughts, I wouldn't have said a word.
 
#228
Thanks, Donovan, your efforts are always appreciated. That may be the best "heads up" (no pun int.) shootout vid. I've seen, eq on or not. I haven't seen many such efforts from any bass or gear mags., large or small. Nice bass too...you ready to unload that old thing on the cheap?
DH
 
#229
Whoa! Vic, you are taking this much more seriously than I am.

Going back over my last post, I count THREE times where I said YOU ARE RIGHT! And that I agree the review would be more useful with clips of the heads flat.

Maybe 3 times wasn't enough though, because I'm not sure how you can disagree with someone who keeps telling you that you are right. :atoz:

Again, it would be better with clips of the amps flat, but even without the flat clips, the review is still VERY useful and helpful to me.

That's what I am saying, and frankly, I'm not wrong about that.

Consequently, discussions about EQing, hands, scooping, etc., they are all interesting, and while you make good points, to me they just aren't relevant because they fall so far outside the very specific point I am trying to make:

Yes, the review wasn't perfect, but it doesn't mean it wasn't helpful.

And while I'm agreeing with you, let me say that I also agree that 8 minutes is ample time to do an even tighter and more serious review, but it just wasn't the intent of this video. Consequently, I can't knock it for it not being something it wasn't trying to be, you know?

And as a side bar, I thought the video gave us an interesting perspective on the ash and maple Fbass VF5, seeing as we got to hear it played in different styles and through 3 different amps. To me, that may have been the most helpful part of the video, and why I'd recommend Donovan tag the VF5 in youtube.
 
#230
Tom7 said:
Whoa! Vic, you are taking this much more seriously than I am...
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Sorry dude. It's cool. It's just really important to me that my posts aren't read as a jab... especially to the person I'm responding to... especially someone like Donovan. That's just kind of a hot button with me... I refuse to do that to people, so I just get a little jumpy if I feel I've been (mis)taken that way.

Thanks. :)
 
#232
Hey Guys,

Thanks for all of the feedback and positive comments. I really appreciate each of you for what you bring to our community. The suggestions for ways to improve what I'm doing, as well as the people defending my choices, make this site, and more importantly, this Club, such a great thing to be a part of.

After reading Vic's comments, I've decided to do a quick "flat" recording this afternoon. It shouldn't take long as I still have the amps setup. I'll record it today at lunch, and then edit it tonight and post later.

Thanks again everyone. I appreciate the comments, and I want everyone to know that I've not taken any comment negatively...
 
#233
dkb said:
I've decided to do a quick "flat" recording this afternoon. It shouldn't take long as I still have the amps setup. I'll record it today at lunch, and then edit it tonight and post later...
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I REALLY look forward to this.

There's a bit more to this as well...

I've had plenty of experience with the Shuttles and some other ultralight heads, but the only experiences I've had with the TC and Ibanez stuff is either via headphones or noisy NAMM environments, and definitely nowhere near back to back like this.

Ultralight heads are not at all new to us, but mass marketed and highly affordable ones are, so I'm watching this stuff with great interest. Further, and more to the point (tho I know this is really OT for this particular thread, so at least forgive me this post), it's interesting to me the different choices the different vendors are making for their "base voicings" before you use EQ. They can vary a LOT.

Anyway, FWIW.
 
#235
tombowlus said:
And that is one of the reasons why I asked Vic to write reviews for Bass Gear Magazine. :D

No offense to anyone who does not take gear reviews as seriously as Vic, of course. ;) :cool:
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Good point, Tom. Vic is exactly the right guy you want doing that. You definitely want that passionate, fastidious, attention to detail type person bringing credibility to that job.
 
#236
Vic said:
Sorry dude. It's cool. It's just really important to me that my posts aren't read as a jab... especially to the person I'm responding to... especially someone like Donovan. That's just kind of a hot button with me... I refuse to do that to people, so I just get a little jumpy if I feel I've been (mis)taken that way.

Thanks. :)
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I know what you mean; I am the same way.

And that can be really hard with pure written communication like this. I remember wishing I could see your face as you "said" that so I could know more fully where you were coming from.

By the way, to show you how dumb I am about amps, I've pretty much only wanted the most colorless, "hi fi" rig I could find so it would present my basses in their purest tones. Once I bought what I thought would do that (Invalid Link Removed with an [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]), I never gave the matter a second thought. I've never gassed for anything since as well.

I have wanted a great preamp for the rig, however... ideally something with presets, multiband compression, and that search led me to the TC. I thought, "Hey, I could use this for a pre on the big rig, or as a head for a smaller, portable set up."

That research is when I started considering, hey, a little color could be a really good thing.
 
#237
Tom7 said:
That research is when I started considering, hey, a little color could be a really good thing.
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Exactly, and I'm a firm believer that at least some, and maybe most amp manufacturers carefully design their "native voicings" to match what they think will work best for the gigging musician (as opposed to look the most "accurate" to the laboratory tester). Bottom line, IMHO, what looks the most impressive on a scope is not necessarily what works best on a gig. The question is, how much do you design into your native voicing, and how much do you relegate to the user's choice via the EQ you provide? That piques my curiosity these days.
 
#238
chris.gotfunk said:
Wow! Thank you! That is some really good reference info. I am sold on the ash/maple VF5. I just spoke with my financial advisor and got approval to go ahead and snag it. So, I am pretty stoked... :hyper:

For some reason, especially based on your review I still think I will also order a BN5 in ash/maple as well. I love the humbucking/coil tap option. Not to mention the great matching pickup and control cavity covers that just make these basses so elegant and sophisticated. The only thing I am trying to decide on would be what color. I really like the brown burst, but I would LOVE to have an all white (albeit a trans white) bass. I play in a funk/hiphop cover band and the all white thing would be soo nasty.

Thanks again and I hope to have some pics of the VF5 for you soon. I have to wait a couple of weeks to send payment, but it will happen.
Click to expand...

We can also do olympic white!
 
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