Club Sadowsky!!!

[pepj]

Not sure exactly what you mean by that. There's a few Japan Metro 4 strings available at around $2K. Mostly, they are maple fretboards. The Pau Ferro Fretboard models seem more rare and also seem to fetch a few $100 more from what I have seen lately.

It's my opinion (Only 1 guys take on it) that the MIJ Metros are going to continue to go up in value even if the Warwick Sadowskys are welcomed equally.

I would not Take less than $2750 for my Yoshi Era Metroline with Pau Ferro. That's because I know I could not replace it with any other metro that I would consider on par with it.

TLDR; Jump on the $2k Metro's while you have the chance. Pay a little more for Pau Ferro unless you like Maple boards better.

I've been tracking j5's and both used sellers i was onto have withdrawn them and one has relisted at 2.3k. That's where my discussion about which Metro came from, both listed as Japanese and 'better' than German build.
In Euros I can buy for 2.4 upwards new, but since I'm not desperate to have one..I'd just like one..it is now likely I'll miss the boat.

In general though, mid to highish end basses have increased by around 20% in 6 months or less, ime.

 

[Vic]

Regarding you question, the answer is yes, I've played Sadowskys before ( Metro, NYC, UV70, RV5, Modern )

then completely disregard everything i said. i should have asked this first. sorry.

on the RSD, for whatever it's worth, my experience with Roger is that, if he puts his name on it, it has a pedigree that makes it worthy. i'm not sure how much that counts for since i've never played an RSD, but in case it helps.

otherwise, good luck with your quest.

 

[nickpc]

Not that I'm lazy ass, sorry... but as I'm in a hurry to define some purchase options, I'd like to hear from you: The RSD line ( MetroExpress ), specifically the 5-string, is it worth the money? Yes or No? Strengths, flaws, whatever you can point out... I would like to know a bit more about its electronics, too.

Thanks in advance!

I have a RSD Vintage JJ.

Negatives:

• No VTC - just bass and treble boost on the pre-amp
• Jazz pickups are single coil - they're susceptible to the typical Single Coil Hum when the volume isn't balanced between them
• Single bar string tree - personal opinion, but I don't like the look as much as the string retainers on my NYC and German MetroLine (if I could find a 5-string in that style I'd change it)
• The RSD logo on the headstock isn't the most attractive (again, a personal opinion)

The last 2 are, as noted, personal opinions, and aren't things you deal with while you're playing, so really don't matter for a whole lot.

Positives:

• Sadowsky design/engineering
• Warwick build

Sounds like a Sadowsky (less the VTC), plays like a Sadowsky, great build quality.

Bottom line - if a RSD is what you're itching for, and you understand the (minor) compromises you are making, go for it!

 

[KaseOfBass]

I have a RSD Vintage JJ.

Negatives:

• Single bar string tree - personal opinion, but I don't like the look as much as the string retainers on my NYC and German MetroLine (if I could find a 5-string in that style I'd change it)

I also don't care for the bar design string retainer and removed the one on my Lakland DJ5 in favor of a a 2/3 setup with the Hipshot retainers. I wonder, given that the 5-string NYC and Metro basses only come with a 4 string retainer, if that would work on the RSD basses?

Bass String Retainer – Hipshot Products

 

[ShadowGroover]

If it is a Sadowsky preamp, then I'll assume it will be Sadowsky's baked tone.

This assumption seems odd. For example, start with a Sadowsky bass in passive mode. Many players stop right there. The "baked" in tone is the bass. (If one dislikes it, no preamp will remedy.)

Next, engage Sadowsky preamp active mode, with bass & treble at zero, and passive tone full. In my experience the passive tone is preserved at this setting. Baked goodness! Just like mom's apple pie . .

Need bass, treble, or both? Add some. Wish for more mids? Dial back passive tone. Yum, yum, yum!

The Sadowsky preamp is true beauty in simplicity. An Audere? Makes me shake my head in sadness, saying "Oh dear." Audere also rhymes with austere (in tone). Lots of tone available, just not the right one, baked in or not.

Please note that I will not go to the "Audere club" thread to state this. I respect those that enjoy their Auderes in a club (if it even exists) environment.

 

[nickpc]

I also don't care for the bar design string retainer and removed the one on my Lakland DJ5 in favor of a a 2/3 setup with the Hipshot retainers. I wonder, given that the 5-string NYC and Metro basses only come with a 4 string retainer, if that would work on the RSD basses?

Bass String Retainer – Hipshot Products

I'll get my RSD JJ5 and German ML PJ5 in the same room and compare the headstocks, but I believe they are the same (or at least really close) so it would work. The problem is that it couldn't go in the same place as the bar - on the RSD the bar is between the nut and the B tuning peg, and the B and G strings are outside the screws, where the Hipshot-style sits "above" B and peg, and nearly against the G peg, with the E-G stings between the screws. So you'd have to drill new holes in the headstock and either live with or fix the old holes. It doesn't bother me enough to go that route, but that's just me.

My thought ends up being that I only see it when I'm not playing, and the screw holes would bother me more than the bar does, so I'm probably not doing anything to mine.

 

[Vic]

IF it is a Sadowsky preamp, then I'll assume it will be Sadowsky's baked tone. Isn't that right?

This assumption seems odd.

fwiw, i disagree. imho Alessandro is correct.

all preamps have a voice, and the Sadowsky preamp is no different. even if you consider it subtle, it's still there.

of course in passive mode, it's a moot point, but if the discussion is about preamps, then i feel he's right.

 

[ShadowGroover]

Whatever, Vic. Roger and I disagree with you (et al.), haha. He can have the last word. (Oh wait, he already did when he designed his onboard 2-band/FET/VTC work of art.)

 

[KaseOfBass]

I'll get my RSD JJ5 and German ML PJ5 in the same room and compare the headstocks, but I believe they are the same (or at least really close) so it would work. The problem is that it couldn't go in the same place as the bar - on the RSD the bar is between the nut and the B tuning peg, and the B and G strings are outside the screws, where the Hipshot-style sits "above" B and peg, and nearly against the G peg, with the E-G stings between the screws. So you'd have to drill new holes in the headstock and either live with or fix the old holes. It doesn't bother me enough to go that route, but that's just me.

My thought ends up being that I only see it when I'm not playing, and the screw holes would bother me more than the bar does, so I'm probably not doing anything to mine.

Gotcha

For me, it was more about function and when changing strings, I hate either taking the bar off or messing with sliding the E, A, and D strings under it. It's trivial, but I hated it. Screw holes didn't bother me, so on the Lakland, off with the bar and new holes put in the headstock for the Hipshot retainers. Fortunately, both my current 5-string NYC basses are newer and have the Hipshot 4-string retainer rather than the bar, but if they didn't, I'd be changing out that bar pretty quick. I've had older Sadowsky basses with the bar and, at the time, it was fine, though I didn't care for it even then, but the Hipshot retainer is just one of those tiny little things that make a world of difference for me.

 

[LightForce104]

Gotta say, there's some really weird tribalism going on in this thread. I remember a few months back when some of y'all were convinced that the VTC was made out of unicorn farts and fairy dust, and not just your standard tone knob. Yes, the preamp is great IF that is what you're looking for, but it does impart its own color to the sound. People buy Fenders just to mod the crap out of them, and no one bats an eye. The RSD basses are in the same price bracket as the Mexican Fenders, so why not buy one just to mod it? It's not like this is a $6k NYC bass that you're going to be messing with.

 

[LightForce104]

Gotcha

For me, it was more about function and when changing strings, I hate either taking the bar off or messing with sliding the E, A, and D strings under it. It's trivial, but I hated it. Screw holes didn't bother me, so on the Lakland, off with the bar and new holes put in the headstock for the Hipshot retainers. Fortunately, both my current 5-string NYC basses are newer and have the Hipshot 4-string retainer rather than the bar, but if they didn't, I'd be changing out that bar pretty quick. I've had older Sadowsky basses with the bar and, at the time, it was fine, though I didn't care for it even then, but the Hipshot retainer is just one of those tiny little things that make a world of difference for me.

To add to the issues, I've had a few bars (not on Sadowsky basses) start angling due to the string tension, and one even pulled out when I was playing it.

 

[Addison]

Gotta say, there's some really weird tribalism going on in this thread. I remember a few months back when some of y'all were convinced that the VTC was made out of unicorn farts and fairy dust, and not just your standard tone knob. Yes, the preamp is great IF that is what you're looking for, but it does impart its own color to the sound. People buy Fenders just to mod the crap out of them, and no one bats an eye. The RSD basses are in the same price bracket as the Mexican Fenders, so why not buy one just to mod it? It's not like this is a $6k NYC bass that you're going to be messing with.

Ha!

I agree with you completely. I have read some really weird opinions and assumptions about the VTC in this thread and it is simply a passive tone control, same as what’s already on any Fender Jazz Bass.

I also agree that the preamp has a “baked in” tone. Even when the active bass and treble are turned down all the way bass, treble and overall output all get a very subtle boost. Passive mode does not equal active mode with B/T set at zero.

 

[nickpc]

To add to the issues, I've had a few bars (not on Sadowsky basses) start angling due to the string tension, and one even pulled out when I was playing it.

That's sort of where I put my faith in Roger and Warwick - it would really surprise me if the bar they use wasn't up to doing it's job. There is some bend to mine, but I believe it is designed with that bit of an arc.

My dislike is purely aesthetic, and if there was a string retainer of the hipshot style that would install in the same spot I'd probably do it.

 

[LightForce104]

That's sort of where I put my faith in Roger and Warwick - it would really surprise me if the bar they use wasn't up to doing it's job. There is some bend to mine, but I believe it is designed with that bit of an arc.

My dislike is purely aesthetic, and if there was a string retainer of the hipshot style that would install in the same spot I'd probably do it.

Sorry, I should clarify that the entire bar ended up angling - meaning that the screws themselves were angling and compressing the wood to one side. When I had one pop out, it was because one of the screws no longer had any grip on wood due to its movement.

 

[Clark Westfield]

Your discussion about the string retainer is valid.

I hate that design, as it is cheesy and does weaken with string tension over time.

Inexpensive basses come with them.

I have a cheap Yamaha that I leave at my office, and it started bending.

A Hipshot replacement retainer fixed it real quick.

 

[pepj]

Hmmm. A $5k bass equals a $2.5k and equals a $750 bass. Obviously, imv, 'equal' is a very loose term.
How do you square that?
Labour cost per hour
Labour spent on tasks
QC
Parts
Corners cut.

Its not only Sadowsky's dilemma everyone who off-shores has this issue.

FWIW, my guess is NYC is the going rate plus kudos.
Metroline is a decent effort with cheaper labour.
Japanese and German workers arent going to be cheap in themselves though.
Express lines will have all the compromises because they are up against Sire, etc.

 

[HeavyJazz]

^^^ I own and/or have played all 4 versions and can attest... that you get what you pay for. All are exceptional instruments for their respective price ranges.

 

[Vic]

on the whole VTC thing, i do think there may be one thing about a VTC on a Sadowsky that makes its effects on tone different vs other instruments, even though the VTC circuit itself is the same.

my understanding is the Sadowsky preamp is based on a different type of electronic implementation (FET vs Op Amp? can't remember), and as such, what the VTC does to tone because of that is different than the usual fare, which may make it a bit "special" on a Sadowsky.

i welcome correction, however.

 

[WorktheWood]

If the VTC only worked in active mode, maybe. But since it works in passive, exactly like the typical tone control, it's no different that what is found on a passive Fender.

on the whole VTC thing, i do think there may be one thing about a VTC on a Sadowsky that makes its effects on tone different vs other instruments, even though the VTC circuit itself is the same.

my understanding is the Sadowsky preamp is based on a different type of electronic implementation (FET vs Op Amp? can't remember), and as such, what the VTC does to tone because of that is different than the usual fare, which may make it a bit "special" on a Sadowsky.

i welcome correction, however.

 

[Vic]

If the VTC only worked in active mode, maybe. But since it works in passive, exactly like the typical tone control, it's no different that what is found on a passive Fender.

of course, in passive mode, but again, we're talking preamps here, so i was only talking about active mode.