Club Sadowsky!!!

[WorktheWood]

Yes, I know. The point is that the tone control is passive and functions exactly the same whether the preamp is engaged or not. It does not interact with the preamp in any different way. It's just a potentiometer with a capacitor, just like what is used on any other passive instrument and other active instruments that include a passive tone control.

of course, in passive mode, but again, we're talking preamps here, so i was only talking about active mode.

 

[Alessandro Cruz]

on the whole VTC thing, i do think there may be one thing about a VTC on a Sadowsky that makes its effects on tone different vs other instruments, even though the VTC circuit itself is the same.

my understanding is the Sadowsky preamp is based on a different type of electronic implementation (FET vs Op Amp? can't remember), and as such, what the VTC does to tone because of that is different than the usual fare, which may make it a bit "special" on a Sadowsky.

i welcome correction, however.

I never seen the Sadowsky preamp "in loco" ( the whole electronics ) to figure out how it works. But IME with the Audere and Fender preamps, I'll suppose it to be just like you said, mostly dependent on the preamp design.

The last Audere preamp I ordered was basically a special request on my part, I contacted David directly, and asked for a configuration to keep my bass body untouched ( no extra holes ), so I chose the 4-band Classic, 3 stacked pots + the Tone control featured on the Audere Jazz preamps.

When I told him my intention, he was absolutely kind and said "It can be added to an existing Classic preamp. We do not put it on our website as there is already 190 preamp variations…"

That moment I had a smile on my face, paid for the order via Paypal, as requested and received it a few days later... I couldn't be happier! No wonder I still do business with David Meadows, and recommend his stuff.

Cellphone videos are not that great, they don't do justice to the bass, but it is what it is...

Just a small footage showing the passive tone, specially with the bridge pickup, bass and treble flat and some touch of hi-low mids. Same thing following with neck pickup only. Hope you'll enjoy...

PS: The language/conversation is in portuguese, I made that small video just to show the new preamp to a friend of mine...

 

[Alessandro Cruz]

The preamp I've ordered at Audere

 

[monkeyland]

Is there an audere club?

 

[Alessandro Cruz]

Is there an audere club?

Not sure exactly what you mean by that... Never heard about a "preamp club" around here, to be honest...

 

[ShadowGroover]

Is there an audere club?

Exactly. Someone should go and start one, especially since their demos are now appearing in non Sadowsky basses.

Non Sadowsky preamps in non Sadowsky basses on this thread. Why? Enough of the thread hijack, imo.

 

[Alessandro Cruz]

Oh, I see... So IF someone takes a Sadowsky bass, let's just say NYC, and replace the preamp for whatever other brand, no matter the reason, then it's heresy... I get it.

Such a petty way of thinking... not to say fanatical.

 

[Alessandro Cruz]

<FLAME>Maybe I'll get a Metroline and put some korean ARTEC SOUND on it, it might sound cool, maybe it can be better than Sadowsky with VTC?</FLAME>


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[Vic]

Yes, I know. The point is that the tone control is passive and functions exactly the same whether the preamp is engaged or not...

i disagree. with the preamp engaged, the VTC is now part of a totally different circuit, and now can have different tonal results.

 

[pickles]

The VTC magic is that it’s before the EQ. So you get that low mid fattening along with a treble reduction like a j bass, then you hit it with the fender tone stack scoop on the EQ. Like a J bass into an alembic f1-x but with no loss from the cable, and all onboard. Its a thing. And the active treble boosts different frequencies than the VTC remove. I had an MTD wired similarly and it was awesome as well. You have to spend time with it though, its not as simple as an audere etc.

I agree with allesandro on bartolinis - good pickups, horrible preamps!

 

[soflbass]

It works just like a standard Fender tone control. It is a passive control in which 10 is flat and as you roll it down it knocks off a broad swath of high end to give you a warmer tone. A little rolled off knocks off a lot of string noise. All the way rolled off, it gives you a lot of that "motown/flatwound" sound.

Although the control is passive, it functions with the bass in either active or passive mode.

I find it much more useful and musical than an active treble roll off on the preamp. And because it operates so differently than active controls, you can actually boost treble on the preamp and cut highs with the VTC at the same time.

Roger

This is what Roger said on a 2018 thread. If you look for Roger's video explaining how the preamp works, he mentions that the treble boost band is 4K Hz and the bass boost band is 40Hz.

 

[WorktheWood]

Even Roger says it's just a passive tone control per what soflbass posted from one of Roger's posts. It does not have a different effect than any other tone control. The preamp adds the ability to dial back in some treble frequencies but that's more to do with the preamp, not the VTC. The VTC does exactly the same thing no matter whether in passive or active mode. The character of the VCT control does not change but the preamp itself changes the character of the tone of the bass when used in conjunction with the VTC. This is no different than any other active preamp that utilizes a passive tone control. I'm not sure why everyone wants to make it out like the way Roger implements the VTC is somehow different than anyone else or that it does anything different than a standard tone control. Again, even Roger says it's just a tone control. There is no magic or fairy dust involved

i disagree. with the preamp engaged, the VTC is now part of a totally different circuit, and now can have different tonal results.

 

[Alessandro Cruz]

Even Roger says it's just a passive tone control per what soflbass posted from one of Roger's posts. It does not have a different effect than any other tone control. The preamp adds the ability to dial back in some treble frequencies but that's more to do with the preamp, not the VTC. The VTC does exactly the same thing no matter whether in passive or active mode. The character of the VCT control does not change but the preamp itself changes the character of the tone of the bass when used in conjunction with the VTC. This is no different than any other active preamp that utilizes a passive tone control. I'm not sure why everyone wants to make it out like the way Roger implements the VTC is somehow different than anyone else or that it does anything different than a standard tone control. Again, even Roger says it's just a tone control. There is no magic or fairy dust involved

Opera summary: It's just a high frequency rolloff potentiometer, just like everyone else but with a fancy name on it. Am I right?

 

[Vic]

Even Roger says it's just a passive tone control per what soflbass posted from one of Roger's posts. It does not have a different effect than any other tone control. The preamp adds the ability to dial back in some treble frequencies but that's more to do with the preamp, not the VTC. The VTC does exactly the same thing no matter whether in passive or active mode. The character of the VCT control does not change but the preamp itself changes the character of the tone of the bass when used in conjunction with the VTC. This is no different than any other active preamp that utilizes a passive tone control. I'm not sure why everyone wants to make it out like the way Roger implements the VTC is somehow different than anyone else or that it does anything different than a standard tone control. Again, even Roger says it's just a tone control. There is no magic or fairy dust involved

the circuit is identical, but the question is (at least my question/supposition is) that his preamp is electrically different than most, and that matters when it's engaged. i'm asking him directly just to be sure. i'm happy to be wrong, but i though i read this a long time ago, so i guess it's time to fact check myself.

 

[WorktheWood]

I think it's a very easy thing to test. Use the VTC while in active mode with the controls flat and then use the VTC in passive mode. The VTC sounds and works exactly the same. The only difference in tone is that when the preamp is engaged it introduces a slight bit of treble which is a result of the preamp not the VTC. I don't believe Roger's preamp design has ever changed. I don't believe he made any changes when he decided to add a tone control.

the circuit is identical, but the question is (at least my question/supposition is) that his preamp is electrically different than most, and that matters when it's engaged. i'm asking him directly just to be sure. i'm happy to be wrong, but i though i read this a long time ago, so i guess it's time to fact check myself.

 

[Vic]

I don't believe Roger's preamp design has ever changed. I don't believe he made any changes when he decided to add a tone control.

this is my understanding too.

 

[Joebone]

Even Roger says it's just a passive tone control per what soflbass posted from one of Roger's posts. It does not have a different effect than any other tone control. The preamp adds the ability to dial back in some treble frequencies but that's more to do with the preamp, not the VTC. The VTC does exactly the same thing no matter whether in passive or active mode. The character of the VCT control does not change but the preamp itself changes the character of the tone of the bass when used in conjunction with the VTC. This is no different than any other active preamp that utilizes a passive tone control. I'm not sure why everyone wants to make it out like the way Roger implements the VTC is somehow different than anyone else or that it does anything different than a standard tone control. Again, even Roger says it's just a tone control. There is no magic or fairy dust involved

I think this pretty much nails it. Moreover, a number of "passive tone controls" packaged with active circuitry don't have much actual effect on the tone. I'm not gonna name the laggards because I don't want to start a flame war -- and I'm also gonna state that I've not played through a Nordstrand preamp, and given my respect for their pickups, I expect that their passive tone control works well. But I've played several, and for my ears, the only one of them that approaches the Sadowsky VTC is a John East circuit with variable midband. For the record, I usually have the Sadowsky preamp engaged, with like 30% bass boost and 20% treble, and can get a tremendous range of tones based on VTC, pan, right-hand placement, and some variety of left and right-hand fingering/attack techniques.

 

[soflbass]

With all this being said, the bottom line is that the Sadowsky preamp works well and is very musical. Yes, it's different than many other preamps, and uses an FET topology, not an op-amp. It's the user that determines if they like it or not, but it's part of the Sadowsky package, just as the low pass filter topology is a part of an Alembic bass.

Personally, I really dig it and wouldn't replace it. It's the Sadowsky sound and part of the "whole". But if others like the quality and other features that make a Sadowsky, but don't dig the preamp, then it's their decision if they want to swap it. Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Alessandro Cruz]

With all this being said, the bottom line is that the Sadowsky preamp works well and is very musical. Yes, it's different than many other preamps, and uses an FET topology, not an op-amp. It's the user that determines if they like it or not, but it's part of the Sadowsky package, just as the low pass filter topology is a part of an Alembic bass.

Personally, I really dig it and wouldn't replace it. It's the Sadowsky sound and part of the "whole". But if others like the quality and other features that make a Sadowsky, but don't dig the preamp, then it's their decision if they want to swap it. Just my thoughts on the matter.

That's my point all the time, I don't care how well regarded that VTC preamp is ( with good reason, just to make it clear ), but sometimes you want something different, or with a different approach.

Steve Harris's tone is somehow unique, not only by its own technique but the use of flatwound strings on a fretted P-bass.

OTOH I know people who own fretless basses and stick with regular rounds, go figure why.

I knew a guy that every brand new car he bought, immediately after leaving the dealership, would stop at a tire shop and rip out the OEM ones and put Michelin on it.

Didn't matter what car or what brand of tyre, whether it was much better or more expensive than Michelin, but he swapped it anyway... Is it wrong? Don't think so...

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I played that German Metro at my GC again. Even just goofing around, the tone is incredible. That Sadowsky preamp is perfect to my ears. That said, other preamps work better for other people.