Yup. The wordplay is both clever and accurate.
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Yup. The wordplay is both clever and accurate.
Just curious. Anyone here ever think that a "transparent preamp" with adjustable tone controls is an oxymoron?
just fyi on the whole VTC thing, Roger got back to me. in short, i'm wrong... at least from a practical/human discernible standpoint. the VTC is BEFORE the preamp (i thought it was after). that's a game changer.
so it's really more like a fully passive bass with a VTC and then a preamp foot pedal. that's different than other active/passive basses, where the VTC is at the end of everything (the way i THOUGHT Roger's basses were).
so it's still possible the input side of the preamp could affect the the (fixed) "circuit" of the pickups and VTC, it's it's really most likely it doesn't affect tone at all... or at least as discernible to the human ear (as others here have stated... correctly).
sorry for any confusion my misunderstanding caused. i was operating off of fairly specific (albeit incorrect) information i'd had for a long time that had never really been discussed or challenged for verification, so i didn't know.
fyi/thanks.
EDIT: he also confirmed his preamp is FET/transistor whereas most (all?) others are OpAmp... I think this means most other active instruments are more like having a small mixing board installed, whereas his is more like an emulated tube amp/circuit from a tonal perspective, since transistors "kinda" act more like tubes than OpAmps do. just additional FYI.
so it's really more like a fully passive bass with a VTC and then a preamp foot pedal. that's different than other active/passive basses, where the VTC is at the end of everything (the way i THOUGHT Roger's basses were).
so it's still possible the input side of the preamp could affect the the (fixed) "circuit" of the pickups and VTC, it's it's really most likely it doesn't affect tone at all... or at least as discernible to the human ear (as others here have stated... correctly).
sorry for any confusion my misunderstanding caused. i was operating off of fairly specific (albeit incorrect) information i'd had for a long time that had never really been discussed or challenged for verification, so i didn't know.
fyi/thanks.
EDIT: he also confirmed his preamp is FET/transistor whereas most (all?) others are OpAmp... I think this means most other active instruments are more like having a small mixing board installed, whereas his is more like an emulated tube amp/circuit from a tonal perspective, since transistors "kinda" act more like tubes than OpAmps do. just additional FYI.
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Makes sense. I believe Alex Aguilar contributed to the Sadowsky circuit design.
Aggie/Sadowsky info... INTERESTING. Makes sense tho, since they were kinda' co-located for so long.
I don't think the Ag OBP1 sounds identical to the Sadowsky pre even though they're both boost only at the same frequencies. From memory, the Ag sounds a little wider and a little looser in the lows. The OBP1 sounds more similar to the Sad than the OBP1/3 though.
totally agree. tho i took the comment not to say they sound the same, but rather, they're just based on the same electronic technology as you said. fwiw.
agree. I have an obp1 in my fender jazz which was my main player before I got my first sadowsky. They are both good but the sadowsky wins
Thanks for that info, I also thought that the VTC came after pre! Disclaimer: IANA tech -- but order of VTC and pre should matter. Onboard preamps are buffered / low impedance by design, but my understanding is that a passive tone control raises impedance and reduces buffering. So, with VTC first, the final signal leaving the bass has been buffered by the pre, and should be less affected by cable capacitance which causes treble loss in a passive high impedance signal.
Also, passive pickups (including VTC) directly into onboard pre would not be equivalent to a passive circuit sent over instrument cable into preamp pedal, even if the preamp was the same in both cases. Again, that's because the high impedance output from the passive circuit is subject to cable capacitance over the cable run before reaching the pedal. (Guitarists are cool with capacitance -- it's why onboard active circuits are so rare for guitar -- but many hi-fi bassists aren't). As noted, an onboard preamp buffers the circuit so that cable capacitance is less significant.
That's my non-technical understanding and explanation... correction/clarification welcome.
that depends more on the input impedance characteristics of the pedal than it does the cable... just as with an amplifier. my guess is, to the human ear, identical.
also keep in mind the key difference between impedance and resistance is the time domain influence, making it a variable with a nominal instead of a more easily understood fixed value.
And now for something completely different.
I have a 2010ish NYC5 obtained courtesy of the TB classifieds, and it has the old style string retainer, not the Hipshot retainer. Has anyone installed a Hipshot 4-string retainer on an older 5-string Sadowsky? Other than another set of drill holes on the headstock, any other downsides? No plans to resell; question is 1/2 curiosity, 1/2 preference. Gracias.
I have a 2010ish NYC5 obtained courtesy of the TB classifieds, and it has the old style string retainer, not the Hipshot retainer. Has anyone installed a Hipshot 4-string retainer on an older 5-string Sadowsky? Other than another set of drill holes on the headstock, any other downsides? No plans to resell; question is 1/2 curiosity, 1/2 preference. Gracias.
I don’t think I’ve ever had any basses with active preamps and a passive tone control (usually a 250K audio taper pot with a .047 uF cap, as popularized in the Fender Jazz Bass) where the passive tone control came after the active preamp - Mike Lull, Elrick and F Bass immediately come to mind - it just doesn’t make sense to me why that would be a good thing.
Most basses I’ve had that come with an active circuit usually don’t have any passive tonal adjustments at all. Most usually have a 3-band active circuit with some kind of mid control that has a frequency switch.
But I digress.
Most basses I’ve had that come with an active circuit usually don’t have any passive tonal adjustments at all. Most usually have a 3-band active circuit with some kind of mid control that has a frequency switch.
But I digress.
EMG's preamp series can be paired with their VLPF ( or passive tone ) potentiometer before or after the preamp, IIRC.
I've been watching this thread about the Sadowsky preamp with some interest. Though I tend to think that the VTC is a bit overhyped on this Sadowsky channel, I totally agree that it's super useful and I use it a lot.
Having the VTC before the preamp makes the interaction between them more interesting, right? So you can turn down the tone control and then turn up the treble boost for an interesting tonal effect. How the VTC-idea works on a Sadowsky is part of the magic, I believe, as is the preamp design itself.
That's how I've always seen it. I love the way my Sadowskys sound unplugged, and the onboard preamp is not a huge change from that to my ears. I love that. I keep the preamp engaged but I rarely boost the treble or bass. I do back off on the tone control on my P-soap-5 and UV60 Jazz-4 when I want to mellow the sound of new strings, or to achieve a certain feel. Sometimes I boost treble/bass to taste, but my default is on but not boosted. For me, the preamp and tone controls are like heat/air conditioning in a car, or salt and pepper in a meal. They are important and sometimes essential, but work in a kind of additive way: necessary but sort of on top of a solid foundation.
That said, as much as I love my non-preamped basses I will bring a Sadowsky every time into a band rehearsal or gig and much of that calculus has to do with the relatively minimal tonal controls that compliment the beautiful build quality and inherent tone and responsiveness of the instrument.
This is quite different from my Stingray, in which the three band eq works to boost and cut. There's no option to omit the preamp. I would love that, actually, as I really like its non-amplified tone. But that's not really why you get a Stingray. I got that bass for its signature tone.
I'd say you get a Sadowsky for the preamp too, but it's a much more subtle effect unless you want it to be more.
Having the VTC before the preamp makes the interaction between them more interesting, right? So you can turn down the tone control and then turn up the treble boost for an interesting tonal effect. How the VTC-idea works on a Sadowsky is part of the magic, I believe, as is the preamp design itself.
That's how I've always seen it. I love the way my Sadowskys sound unplugged, and the onboard preamp is not a huge change from that to my ears. I love that. I keep the preamp engaged but I rarely boost the treble or bass. I do back off on the tone control on my P-soap-5 and UV60 Jazz-4 when I want to mellow the sound of new strings, or to achieve a certain feel. Sometimes I boost treble/bass to taste, but my default is on but not boosted. For me, the preamp and tone controls are like heat/air conditioning in a car, or salt and pepper in a meal. They are important and sometimes essential, but work in a kind of additive way: necessary but sort of on top of a solid foundation.
That said, as much as I love my non-preamped basses I will bring a Sadowsky every time into a band rehearsal or gig and much of that calculus has to do with the relatively minimal tonal controls that compliment the beautiful build quality and inherent tone and responsiveness of the instrument.
This is quite different from my Stingray, in which the three band eq works to boost and cut. There's no option to omit the preamp. I would love that, actually, as I really like its non-amplified tone. But that's not really why you get a Stingray. I got that bass for its signature tone.
I'd say you get a Sadowsky for the preamp too, but it's a much more subtle effect unless you want it to be more.
The Sadowsky VTC is such a wonderful feature (not "overhyped" IMHO) that I specified the addition of a passive tone control on active basses that I subsequently ordered from Nordstrand, Martin Keith, and Zon*. Each has a different pre, but I'm thrilled with the result in every case. However I have no idea where these tone controls were placed -- maybe they are all "pre pre", same as Sadowsky?
*I own three Sadowskys, only one each from these others.
With very few exceptions, I set my bass/treble knobs on my Sadowsky basses, and rarely touch them again. I've got everything I need with my pickup blend knob, and to quote myself, because I'm proud of some of my witty rejoinders ... to me the VTC knob is:
'One knob, from Motown to Marcus'
If I needed vast and surgical EQ capability on-stage, on the bass itself, I could see using a more robust, option-laden pre. As it is, my only decision is which Sadowsky for what gig. Or 'do I want to schlep my 3 main dameys'. Kapachow.
'One knob, from Motown to Marcus'
If I needed vast and surgical EQ capability on-stage, on the bass itself, I could see using a more robust, option-laden pre. As it is, my only decision is which Sadowsky for what gig. Or 'do I want to schlep my 3 main dameys'. Kapachow.
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