Club Sadowsky!!!

[grimmchaos]

Oh brother, just wait. It gets worse. You'll start hanging around that Club Sadowsky. And then you will start perusing the classified to see what Sadowky basses show up. The GAS will build up then BANG another of Roger's beauties will show up on your doorstep. Don't ask me how i know this.

Oh it's already started. My band plays in multiple tunings so.... yeah.

 

[Sadowsky]

Not to go on about this, but I thought I lost my marbles. Roger, this is a quote from a few years ago that states the stacks were custom from SD. I assume during this time Duncan made your stacks but you have since switched to Nordstrand?

Exactly!

 

[pb9717]

Regarding the “Modded SMX to NYC Fake” debacle…

Going forward, would it be worth it to some or most of us on TalkBass and in this Sadowsky Club/Thread to think of a way to identify their SMX or Metro as such if they ever go the route of serious modifications?

Just off the top of my head, if a total refinish involving the headstock happens then maybe some kind of physical modification to the back of the headstock like a burned-in brand could be in order? Or if a physical alteration isn’t practical then maybe those who pursue this modification with their SMX or Metro post their before and after photos in this thread (or NYC I guess, can’t for the life of me think why that would happen though)?

I realize that this wouldn’t benefit everyone who shops for a used Sadowsky but doing something like this as a community of players might help to give some sort of vetting source to those shopping for used instruments outside of trusted sellers.

Also asking because I have a SMX that I’ve been wanting to give a total makeover for my style, but hate the idea of selling it one day and someone else being taken advantage of by a subsequent unscrupulous seller. For my case I was considering a sort of hot-iron brand on the back of the headstock, inside the control cavity and on both the neck and body surfaces of the neck/body pocket joint; with such done it wouldn’t be as easy, convenient or likely someone could simply sand off ALL brands without severely altering the structural integrity of the instrument to the point it was obviously modified.

What do y’all think?

I have modded MANY RSD and SMX basses, including headstock makeovers. I will NEVER remove the serial # or country of manufacture on any instrument I mod. It is fraud. Plain and simple. I would also NEVER put anything but MetroExpress on a MetroExpress bass. Its FRAUD. Like putting a Fender decal on a Squier. We are our own governor when it comes to ethics, values, and respect. We don't need a system to identify modded basses. Just maintain the instruments country of manufacture and serial #. And don't put fraudulent decals on the headstock.

 

[pb9717]

PS: This is going back to the retailer unless someone here is interested. Discounts to anyone the writes "club sadowsky" in their PM for the bass. its a stunner, but i cannot keep it. In the classified section. Link below.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/sadowsky-japan-mv4-2022.1647657/#post-28382831

 

[Kevan Campbell]

I have modded MANY RSD and SMX basses, including headstock makeovers. I will NEVER remove the serial # or country of manufacture on any instrument I mod. It is fraud. Plain and simple. I would also NEVER put anything but MetroExpress on a MetroExpress bass. Its FRAUD. Like putting a Fender decal on a Squier. We are our own governor when it comes to ethics, values, and respect. We don't need a system to identify modded basses. Just maintain the instruments country of manufacture and serial #. And don't put fraudulent decals on the headstock.

View attachment 5428390

I’d agree on most points, and I really hope you didn’t feel attacked or anything by my post as that was not at all my intent. My idea was to have something unique to each instrument that’s been extensively modded so as to serve as a reference for those in this club on TalkBass.

I recall seeing that MetroExpress you posted for sale here on TB and on Facebook where you clearly stated that you had done the mods (very well btw). An idea I just started kicking around with my MetroExpress project is to have each shop that does things like the refinish or new routing for pickup choices to have their name and location on the back of the headstock in addition to the original serial number, country of origin and original logo on the front of the headstock. In my mind this could be an indicator if the shops that do good work modding and refinishing instruments.

 

[stingray78]

Just posted one of my NYCs in the classifieds if anyone is interested.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/sadowsky-nyc-vintage-5-21-black-pearl.1648776/#post-28393439

 

[pb9717]

I’d agree on most points, and I really hope you didn’t feel attacked or anything by my post as that was not at all my intent. My idea was to have something unique to each instrument that’s been extensively modded so as to serve as a reference for those in this club on TalkBass.

I recall seeing that MetroExpress you posted for sale here on TB and on Facebook where you clearly stated that you had done the mods (very well btw). An idea I just started kicking around with my MetroExpress project is to have each shop that does things like the refinish or new routing for pickup choices to have their name and location on the back of the headstock in addition to the original serial number, country of origin and original logo on the front of the headstock. In my mind this could be an indicator if the shops that do good work modding and refinishing instruments.

No offense taken.

Using myself as an example, I mod basses that are usually, for lack of a better term……messed up. Many times, but not always, they're B stock, damaged in a shipping mishap, or just butt ugly, and sitting on the wall in some music shop in Spain since 2020. I normally get them well below market. Then I work my magic, and do the Aesthetics, Electrics, and sort out any physical issues. When I’m done, they're usually as good or better than a new unit, in that, any niggles are addressed, they play the way I like a bass to play ( read: Damn good), and they sound as good as the budget permits. But this is a hobby, not a business. So once i send one of my babies out into the ether, I’m really not interested in it anymore. Any good luthier can do what I do, or likely even better. But I do it as a hobby.

There may be those that want to ID their work on the back of a headstock, or in a neck pocket. I just am not familiar with any one thats ever done that. I mean, Roger was THE GUY in NYC for decades when it came to repair and mod of FSO. To my knowledge, he didn’t leave any identifying marks on the instruments other than the mods themselves. But I understand your suggestion. And who knows, There might be folks that wanna sign their mods. I do feel great pride when I ship one of my basses to a buyer, because I know, it’s likely they’ll be very pleased with the instrument. I offer a one week return, and demo them over video to make sure they’ll like it. But once they’re gone. I forget a bout em’….Then, it’s on to the next.

 

[glassmoon]

A question to the group. I'm a very new Sadowsky user (MetroExpress), and my experience has been almost exclusively with "standard/regular" preamps.
The boost only Sadowsky preamp is throwing me a little bit. So, the question is, are Sadowsky pickups super bright? I'm used to a much "darker" tone, and this bass is waaaaaay brighter than anything I've ever played.

Thoughts?

 

[Loepie]

A question to the group. I'm a very new Sadowsky user (MetroExpress), and my experience has been almost exclusively with "standard/regular" preamps.
The boost only Sadowsky preamp is throwing me a little bit. So, the question is, are Sadowsky pickups super bright? I'm used to a much "darker" tone, and this bass is waaaaaay brighter than anything I've ever played.

Thoughts?

When you start playing you should start with the tone controls at zero. Then slowly add some bass and highs to it till you like it. So NEVER start with the tone controls fully open like you might do with a passive Fender.

 

[Mark Ambler]

A question to the group. I'm a very new Sadowsky user (MetroExpress), and my experience has been almost exclusively with "standard/regular" preamps.
The boost only Sadowsky preamp is throwing me a little bit. So, the question is, are Sadowsky pickups super bright? I'm used to a much "darker" tone, and this bass is waaaaaay brighter than anything I've ever played.

Thoughts?

Get the VTC installed.

 

[TraderPo]

Get the VTC installed.

This is a must in my book.

 

[JLY]

+1 on starting at zero and never diming out either boost. Also + 1 on the VTC - it makes a big difference to my ears

 

[EdO.]

Get the VTC installed.

So a question I've had since getting my MetroExpress - what is gained by adding the VTC over the stock ME preamp? I understand that the VTC will allow you more cut rather than boost only, which I suppose could replace some initial amp setting tweaking, but otherwise I'm failing to see the need. Personally I'm finding that starting with the bass & treble knobs at zero (flat) and the blend at neutral (all as suggested in the owner manual that came with the bass), once I get my amp settings in the ball park (which for me is an amp/cab block in an HX Stomp) minor tweaks in blend and adding maybe a small bit of bass, treble, or both gets me where I want to be tonally. So for those who've upgraded to the VTC I'd be very interested in opinions as to what it adds for you over the stock pre.

 

[EdO.]

A question to the group. I'm a very new Sadowsky user (MetroExpress), and my experience has been almost exclusively with "standard/regular" preamps.
The boost only Sadowsky preamp is throwing me a little bit. So, the question is, are Sadowsky pickups super bright? I'm used to a much "darker" tone, and this bass is waaaaaay brighter than anything I've ever played.

Thoughts?

Agreed, way brighter than any other bass I've owned to date. Had to do a lot of trying out different amp and amp/cab settings in my Stomp to find something that would tame it down to an acceptable level for me personally. For me that ended up being the SVT Pro-4/HLF 410 block (FWIW) but I think I could get it with other amp sims as well with enough time and tweaking. Now the brightness/twang is in the background just enough to give it a nice sizzle character with the punch and definition I always go for. I'm curious who makes these particular pickups for Sadowski, anyone?. They're bright but once I get things dialed where I want them I'm absolutely loving the tones I'm getting from them.

 

[Jerry J]

A question to the group. I'm a very new Sadowsky user (MetroExpress), and my experience has been almost exclusively with "standard/regular" preamps.
The boost only Sadowsky preamp is throwing me a little bit. So, the question is, are Sadowsky pickups super bright? I'm used to a much "darker" tone, and this bass is waaaaaay brighter than anything I've ever played.

Thoughts?

String options may make a significant difference.

 

[smeet]

A question to the group. I'm a very new Sadowsky user (MetroExpress), and my experience has been almost exclusively with "standard/regular" preamps.
The boost only Sadowsky preamp is throwing me a little bit. So, the question is, are Sadowsky pickups super bright? I'm used to a much "darker" tone, and this bass is waaaaaay brighter than anything I've ever played.

Thoughts?

Yes, Sadowskys are very bright basses. I’m not sure why that is, but I don’t think it’s (just) the pickups. I just got a used and awesome NYC PJ5, and it has Nordstrand pickups, which I’m very familiar with. Even in passive mode it is very bright compared to my other Nordstrand-equipped basses, so I feel it’s the construction of the bass that is giving it that Sadowsky sound. I also notice that the low B string is strong and defined without getting boomy, even up around the 17th fret. Construction FTW I guess.

So a question I've had since getting my MetroExpress - what is gained by adding the VTC over the stock ME preamp? I understand that the VTC will allow you more cut rather than boost only, which I suppose could replace some initial amp setting tweaking, but otherwise I'm failing to see the need. Personally I'm finding that starting with the bass & treble knobs at zero (flat) and the blend at neutral (all as suggested in the owner manual that came with the bass), once I get my amp settings in the ball park (which for me is an amp/cab block in an HX Stomp) minor tweaks in blend and adding maybe a small bit of bass, treble, or both gets me where I want to be tonally. So for those who've upgraded to the VTC I'd be very interested in opinions as to what it adds for you over the stock pre.

I have for years insisted on have or adding a passive tone to all my active basses. It sounds very different from an active treble control, and especially with a boost-only preamp, it’s a very nice addition. You may not notice the difference in a loud rock mix, but in a quiet situation those subtleties can be important. Sometimes I want to hear my fingerprints on the strings, and sometimes I don’t.

 

[Sadowsky]

So a question I've had since getting my MetroExpress - what is gained by adding the VTC over the stock ME preamp? I understand that the VTC will allow you more cut rather than boost only, which I suppose could replace some initial amp setting tweaking, but otherwise I'm failing to see the need. Personally I'm finding that starting with the bass & treble knobs at zero (flat) and the blend at neutral (all as suggested in the owner manual that came with the bass), once I get my amp settings in the ball park (which for me is an amp/cab block in an HX Stomp) minor tweaks in blend and adding maybe a small bit of bass, treble, or both gets me where I want to be tonally. So for those who've upgraded to the VTC I'd be very interested in opinions as to what it adds for you over the stock pre.

If your treble control is set to zero, and you do not desire a warmer tone, you do NOT need the VTC. I built my NYC basses for 20 years before I added the VTC.

 

[pb9717]

Aaaah the VTC argument….here we go.

In some cases a bass can offer “warm” tone w/o the VTC. Simply leave the treble boost off, and bobs your uncle. IME, the SMX/RSD basses, for the most part, even with the Treb pot off, are bright. Too bright for many ( myself included)

The boost only config of the Sadowsky pre is genius in that……I know of no condition in which I want to REDUCE the bass freq on my bass. Never happened once in 40+ years of gigging. So, why would I need the ability to reduce the bass frequency on my instrument??… BUT, There are plenty of situations where I want to reduce the high end across multiple frequencies. This is the logic behind the VTC. It’ll warm the bass up, no matter where the freq controls are.

Other manufacturers basses with +/- control, even with the hi freq control reduced fully, you only reduce a certain frequency. Not multiple frequencies. So, for example….my Elrick has a 3 band +/- pre. But even with the hi freq control reduced fully, it still is not a warm bass. I needed to create a multi-band reduction on an EQ stomp box, to emulate the VTC.

SO, short answer……The VTC will not only warm up your bass, but it’ll give you a taste of what the higher end Sadowsky’s can do.

You will need to completely remove the entire SMX pre to install one with a VTC though, as the “VTC only” kit mod is very difficult on the newer PC board based units in the SMX models. Alternatively, swapping in of the new “fully assembled with VTC” plates are a friggin snap. Like 10 minutes…done.

 

[Treb]

I sometimes like to use some treble boost and the VTC at the same time. Seems counter-intuitive but it can offer good sounding results IME.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I sometimes like to use some treble boost and the VTC at the same time. Seems counter-intuitive but it can offer good sounding results IME.

Amen. I do this frequently.

Cutting a passive tone control is not equivalent to cutting an active treble control. Obviously I'm a huge fan of the VTC, and Roger's boost-only EQ.