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- Apr 6, 2001
- 208
- 48
- Disclosures
- IT director for a music retailer/dealer: Warwick, Yamaha, Ampeg, Gretch, Kala, Marshall, Orange etc..
Thanks Roger, I was gonna say my TCT is boost only not cut/boost as the KungfuSheriff said.
The reason I asked is that I recently found the truss rod on my used Ken Smith is shot and am going to have to buy a new 5er. I live in a smaller town and never get the chance to play a modern Sadwosky so I was curious how different a newer Sadowsky pre would sound than the TCT that Im used to in my Sadowsky.
I have to admit for a 5 string I am partial to the size shape feel of my Smith. I need 24 frets and the Smith has full easy access all the way past the 24th. Many 24 fretters make it difficult to reach the last few frets. Its seems very thin front to back [body and neck]. It has a totally different sound than my Sadowsky.
If I could, Id have a bass that feels like the Smith and sounds like the Sadowsky.
It sounds like the TCT and Sadowsky are very similar with the minor differences Roger stated.
My next question becomes how are the necks on Sadowsky 5's are they all the same size shape? If so "in general" are they thick n' chunky, thin and flat, in between or variable?
I've always bought used guitars and hate buying basses with out playing them. Part of living in small town I guess. Occasionally I drive over to BassNW in Seattle and I am always surprised how certain instruments I think are going to rule just dont feel right to me.
I have always dreamed of ordering my new Sadowsky and flying to NY to pick it up in person. Maybe now is the time?
The reason I asked is that I recently found the truss rod on my used Ken Smith is shot and am going to have to buy a new 5er. I live in a smaller town and never get the chance to play a modern Sadwosky so I was curious how different a newer Sadowsky pre would sound than the TCT that Im used to in my Sadowsky.
I have to admit for a 5 string I am partial to the size shape feel of my Smith. I need 24 frets and the Smith has full easy access all the way past the 24th. Many 24 fretters make it difficult to reach the last few frets. Its seems very thin front to back [body and neck]. It has a totally different sound than my Sadowsky.
If I could, Id have a bass that feels like the Smith and sounds like the Sadowsky.
It sounds like the TCT and Sadowsky are very similar with the minor differences Roger stated.
My next question becomes how are the necks on Sadowsky 5's are they all the same size shape? If so "in general" are they thick n' chunky, thin and flat, in between or variable?
I've always bought used guitars and hate buying basses with out playing them. Part of living in small town I guess. Occasionally I drive over to BassNW in Seattle and I am always surprised how certain instruments I think are going to rule just dont feel right to me.
I have always dreamed of ordering my new Sadowsky and flying to NY to pick it up in person. Maybe now is the time?
Roger has two 24 fret models. The 'Modern' is the opposite of what you want... kind of 'feels like a Sadowsky/Sounds like a Smith' (not exactly, but it has those two big soapbars pretty close to the Smith position 'tight to the bridge', and has a tone in the same tune universe... super articulate, massive low mids, tight low end, pingy upper treble... especially if you get an ebony board).
The other model is basically the modern body with standard 60's J position HC or single coil J pickups (or PJ, or you can actually put the soapbars in there in J position... but that moves it away from sounding like 'a Sadowsky' by your definition). The Sadowsky necks are much more 'C' profile than the very flat Smith necks, but if you spend the cash for an NYC, I think flattening the neck profile is an option (maybe even a no cost option... can't remember. That might get you close to what you need.
Edit: Truss rods are pretty easy to replace... don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Truss rods can usually just be 'screwed out and a new one screwed in'. FYI.
All the Sadowsky dealers I've ever dealt wtih, including the Sadowsky shop itself, offer approval periods. Of course, worst case, it'd cost you round trip shipping to eval and return (if it came to that), but at this purchase level, and for exactly the reason you stated above, that seems pretty reasonable.
Per Ken's comments, a Sadowsky would have to be an NYC with a custom neck profile to even come close to feeling like such a different instrument, but depending on how particular you were about it, it could get the job done. No matter what, it would definitely be a fantastic bass, and certainly achieve your tonal goals.
However, one thing you could try before you start looking at dropping the extra major coin on a custom NYC, is the new 24 fret Metro JJ5(MV5-24 for the ash body and maple board, or RV5-24 if you want the alder body/morado board). That would at least get you close enough to tell if a custom NYC was the way to go, or maybe even if you liked that well enough to just be done with that.
Just a thought.
We are limited to how thin we can make our necks due to the truss rod. My guess in the Smith uses a double expanding rod which lies right under the fingerboard. We use a traditional single rod, which needs to be placed deep in the neck.
I can thin them out a little bit and can also "V" them, but I cannot make them really thin.
If the Smith is a double expanding rod, it is possible the nut is welded on and cannot be replaced. Better check with Ken on this. I disagree with KJung's statement on replacing rods......truss rod nuts are often easily replaced.....rods are another story. Spector's used to be removable---not sure if they still are. But I really cannot think of too many that are replaceable.
Roger
I can thin them out a little bit and can also "V" them, but I cannot make them really thin.
If the Smith is a double expanding rod, it is possible the nut is welded on and cannot be replaced. Better check with Ken on this. I disagree with KJung's statement on replacing rods......truss rod nuts are often easily replaced.....rods are another story. Spector's used to be removable---not sure if they still are. But I really cannot think of too many that are replaceable.
Roger
I'm pretty sure the Fodera rods just screw in and out (had to have mine replaced back in the day), so I thought the Smith might be the same, since those brands are a bit 'related'. Pure guess on my part, but might be worth the OP checking into it with Ken S. just in case.
Just guessing!
Point is, I'd check with the Luthier before dumping the bass, based on the assumption that it is not fixable.
I'm pretty sure the Fodera rods just screw in and out (had to have mine replaced back in the day), so I thought the Smith might be the same, since those brands are a bit 'related'. Pure guess on my part, but might be worth the OP checking into it with Ken S. just in case.
Just guessing!
Good guess! In order for the rod to be removable, it usually needs to be an angled headstock and a double rod. They just "pull out". They are not screwed into anything. They just sit in a channel. And those rods usually do not have removable nuts, so the only way to repair them is to replace the rod.
R
Over my head Roger
Cool though... lots of ways to build a bass I guess! Let's hope he gets the Smith fixed easily, sells it to a happy buyer, and then gets one of those new Metro 24's that Vic mentioned
. I hate to do this.
Outside of the physical limitations involving the truss rod, are there any advantages to a slightly thicker neck outside of feel/comfort/preference?
Does anyone feel it, the thickness of the neck, attributes something to the sound and tone, or that a slightly thinner neck really has little to no impact on the tone?
I'm just curious =D!
Everything in my 38 years of guitar making tells me the thicker the neck the better the tone. But that has to be balanced against playability.
Roger
Roger
+1 in my experience as a player and 'bass tryer outer'. Also, I've long since let go of the myth that laminated necks and/or quarter sawn necks or extended scales are in any way more stable, more resonent, result in a better B string, less dead spots, etc., etc. than a good, high quality chunk of flat sawn maple executed well (i.e, proper dimensions, drying, finish, etc.).
I have never experienced a better B string than on my simple 34" scale maple Sadowsky neck. I've also never experienced a 'stiffer' neck... not sure how Roger does that on instrument after instrument. Solid as a rock.
I totally agree with this statement, except I've never tried a Sadowsky 5, but I take your word for it
I personally feel a thicker neck sounds better, definitely has better lows that, along with rigidity, contributes to a good B string. I also feel a one piece neck sounds better, with a more open sound. It's been my experience that one piece necks have been more stable compared to multi-lam.
+1. My PJ5's B is thunderous, and I think the same factors you listed above are responsible for how EVERY note on Roger's basses from low to high retain a certain thickness. Recently a drummer I'd never played with prior to the gig commented that he liked how my sound didnt' lose any bottom end when I played high up on the neck. VERY cool.
No! Honestly. I prolly shoulda' just jammed a smiley at the end there. Sorry about that.
Yeah, I understood that, I just didn't get that from his post. Seems like he's just familiar with the old TCT and wanted to know how the new ones were different. As far as I know, you don't have a choice of the old TCT in a Sadowsky, so that's why I read it as more of a reference question than a choice (better/worse, or preference) question.KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
+1
I always "fight the good fight" when folks start challenging the ability to have a great B string without extending scale, using neck lams, neck thru, quarter-sawn, etc, but not everybody buys into the FACT that it's just a matter of making a good stiff neck, however you choose to do so. The power of marketing, I suppose.
Good point. One of the things I've always noticed about a Sadowsky is it doesn't have the tendency to kinda' disappear out from under you when you go up to the D and especially G strings. Basically, anywhere you go on the instrument, the sound is right there for you. You don't have to adjust your playing to back off of an overpowering string or dig in extra hard to bring out a weak one. REALLY nice.
