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Coiling Cables Video

#21
My method is similar to the third "wrong" way, but to let the overhead looped length dangle free for a moment to get the twist out. I also put each coiled cord in its own 1 gallon ziplock plastic bag, to avoid entanglements in my gig bag. This works for me with my 10/15/20 foot stage cords, but probably not for 50/100 foot PA cables and such.
 
#23
D.A.R.K. said:
i'm with sam, and i've never seen one cable die from noose coiling or overhand only.
i've been touring professionally for 20 years now.
all the techs on the road which i've been out with (8th day, clair, showco, rat, etc.) pretty much laugh at the over under method.
it's nice when you have time, but when you have to throw down 15 cables in 2 minutes you can't afford to throw the wrong end and end up with knots. you can easily coil/uncoil overhand only method to lie flat, i'm a neat freak about cabling and have had no issues.
i suppose that video is great for a full sail class, though.
Click to expand...

You are entitled to your opinion but I wanted to mention two things.

You won't see a cable die overnight from improper coiling, it just reduces the overall life expectancy of the cable before the shielding starts to loosen and eventually break in various spots. This shortened life is why most all sound companies (including Rat Sound, Clair Brothers, and others) use the over/under method. Saving 15% or more in cable purchases by extending the life of the cable makes it worth doing.

The jab at Full Sail was really rather sad, and definitely uncalled for. If you have any knowledge of live sound, you would realize that MOST of the guys working at Clair Brothers, and many other live sound companies actually are graduates of Full Sail, The Recording Workshop, etc. It used to be that you started in the shop learning basic repair and worked your way up but in the last 10 years we are seeing a shift to starting at a school, then moving into the sound companies (often still starting at in-house service and repair!). Look where Bruce Knight, Joe Keiser, Dustin Ponscheck, and many others are at now. I guess a little training to start things off wasn't such a mockable thing for them, huh?
 
#24
Alaska Bass said:
You are entitled to your opinion but I wanted to mention two things.

You won't see a cable die overnight from improper coiling, it just reduces the overall life expectancy of the cable before the shielding starts to loosen and eventually break in various spots. This shortened life is why most all sound companies (including Rat Sound, Clair Brothers, and others) use the over/under method. Saving 15% or more in cable purchases by extending the life of the cable makes it worth doing.

The jab at Full Sail was really rather sad, and definitely uncalled for. If you have any knowledge of live sound, you would realize that MOST of the guys working at Clair Brothers, and many other live sound companies actually are graduates of Full Sail, The Recording Workshop, etc. It used to be that you started in the shop learning basic repair and worked your way up but in the last 10 years we are seeing a shift to starting at a school, then moving into the sound companies (often still starting at in-house service and repair!). Look where Bruce Knight, Joe Keiser, Dustin Ponscheck, and many others are at now. I guess a little training to start things off wasn't such a mockable thing for them, huh?
Click to expand...
Not to mention JD Harmeyer, a Full Sail grad who now has a great job pulling clips off TV shows for the Howard Stern Show at $25,000 a year ;)

I live near Full Sail, and I know and have worked with many many grads of Full Sail and other similar schools. Without fail, recent Full Sail grads are the absolute worst people to work with. They come out of that school shot out of a cannon and act like they know everything there is to know because they went to Full Sail. Then they get out on gigs and they think they know way more than anyone, and God forbid you might want to do something or use a piece of equipment that their teacher told them wasn't a good idea to use. Invariably they get humbled in a big and dramatic way by totally screwing up a few gigs, and then and only then do they realize that they just might not know everything.

As an example...just the other day on here, a recent grad of an audio school (and an otherwise decent kid) was informed that something he learned in school was completely wrong and was shown proof by guys like greenboy and Bill Fitzmaurice, serious audio guys who really know their stuff. His reply: "I have a degree that says people ought to just shut up and take notes." That, to me, sums up why I feel about Full Sail grads the way I do. It's a good school, way overpriced, but a good school...but these teachers need to explain to these kids how the world works and quit puffing them up like they're geniuses just for graduating.
 
#26
JimmyM said:
Not to mention JD Harmeyer, a Full Sail grad who now has a great job pulling clips off TV shows for the Howard Stern Show at $25,000 a year ;)

I live near Full Sail, and I know and have worked with many many grads of Full Sail and other similar schools. Without fail, recent Full Sail grads are the absolute worst people to work with. They come out of that school shot out of a cannon and act like they know everything there is to know because they went to Full Sail. Then they get out on gigs and they think they know way more than anyone, and God forbid you might want to do something or use a piece of equipment that their teacher told them wasn't a good idea to use. Invariably they get humbled in a big and dramatic way by totally screwing up a few gigs, and then and only then do they realize that they just might not know everything.

As an example...just the other day on here, a recent grad of an audio school (and an otherwise decent kid) was informed that something he learned in school was completely wrong and was shown proof by guys like greenboy and Bill Fitzmaurice, serious audio guys who really know their stuff. His reply: "I have a degree that says people ought to just shut up and take notes." That, to me, sums up why I feel about Full Sail grads the way I do. It's a good school, way overpriced, but a good school...but these teachers need to explain to these kids how the world works and quit puffing them up like they're geniuses just for graduating.
Click to expand...

Agreed. A lot of the new "graduates" don't have the training in "Shut up and learn from the greats". The ones that do, go on to be successful, not only because of the training the received in school, but the right attitude will continually promote them.

Perhaps taking an hour of your time in the next month to go over and meet with the Dean (or at least call) would provide valuable insight that I am sure they would appreciate. They may not know the presentation that some of their students are making.
 
#27
Alaska Bass said:
Agreed. A lot of the new "graduates" don't have the training in "Shut up and learn from the greats". The ones that do, go on to be successful, not only because of the training the received in school, but the right attitude will continually promote them.

Perhaps taking an hour of your time in the next month to go over and meet with the Dean (or at least call) would provide valuable insight that I am sure they would appreciate. They may not know the presentation that some of their students are making.
Click to expand...
They have to know. I have a feeling it's related to the enormous cost of going there that they don't do anything about it. Plus let's face it...if a parent sends their kid there, chances are the kid comes from a background of being completely indulged by their parents. Doesn't make for humility.
 
#28
Bob Lee (QSC) said:
Absolutely.

The over-under method is great for coiling cables tangle-free; it keeps them from kinking and twisting. The only down side is that you have to keep track of which end you started coiling with. If you straighten out the cable in the right direction, it lays out flat, but if you pull the cable straight the opposite way, it'll lay out in a series of overhand knots.
Click to expand...

Well put, Bob. this is the method I learned and train people in. I learned it while coiling 50-foot long rubberized mike cables. If you get those wrong, they'll start turning around and eating you!

One secret to keeping the cable in good order is to put a good velcro tie on it. Every cable I own has a velcro tie on it.

As long as you finish the last loop of the coil and secure the ends with the velcro, you're gold. But if one end of the cable drops through the center of the coil, you get knots galore.

And I agree, when I mess one up and drop the cable end through, it's a reminder to take another 10 seconds and do it right the next time.
 
#32
D.A.R.K. said:
i'm with sam, and i've never seen one cable die from noose coiling or overhand only.
i've been touring professionally for 20 years now.
all the techs on the road which i've been out with (8th day, clair, showco, rat, etc.) pretty much laugh at the over under method.
it's nice when you have time, but when you have to throw down 15 cables in 2 minutes you can't afford to throw the wrong end and end up with knots. you can easily coil/uncoil overhand only method to lie flat, i'm a neat freak about cabling and have had no issues.
i suppose that video is great for a full sail class, though.
Click to expand...

As a former tour rat, and a SERIOUS tour rat at that, I'm going to throw in here. I worked with Clair / Showco many times, along with Rat, Clearwing, Electrotec, etc. as a BE and ME, plus more shows than I can count as a local hand.

I've watched local hands get yelled at multiple times (read: every night) for noosing or any other amateurish way of trying to wrap cables. Many of these companies insist on over/over instead of over/under, because local hands can't seem to do over/under without a disaster. I've NEVER seen any company advocate noosing...it was a good way to get fired from Clearwing, as a matter of fact (and for the record, they used over/over).

My last job before getting out of full-time audio was as the audio director for a major performing arts center. Anyone on staff who wrapped a cable anything other than over/over (or figure-8 for the big stuff) got soldering duty for the next week, because if they were going to break my cables, they got to fix them.

-Mark
 
#33
Not to throw in on the Full-Sail bashing...well, ok, yes, to throw in on the FS bashing.. ;)

I've yet to meet a Full Sail grad who knows his or her stuff. I'm not saying they aren't out there, but every single one...EVERY single one...I've come across is incompetent behind a console at best.

Give me a road dog who learned it the hard way any day. You just can't recreate real-world environments for live audio at any school. The closest I've ever seen was Jack Alexander in Chicago...but he's an old road dog.

Studio work? Sure, I'll go along with classroom training for that...but studio is a far cry from live, no matter what some people think.

-Mark
 
#35
Bob Lee (QSC) said:
Even then, Jack Alexander has a reputation for teaching his students a lot of voodoo, like magic cables and such. The guy has a very good ear for mixing, but he shuns technical understanding. That is a very self-limiting approach.
Click to expand...

I've heard that he's done some of that. To which you're right, I have to say :rolleyes: to anyone who believes in magic cables.

If we could just get Jack and Doug to cross-breed...

-Mark
 
#36
I don't have an opinion on Full Sail, but this is pretty much true of any/all recent graduates (or recently certified types). Everyone thinks they can change the world and they're smarter than the experienced ones. A very very small percentage are right, the rest get humbled and then really start learning.
 
#37
Most Full Sail grads I have dealt with have an overblown sense of entitlement to begin with. A month of sweeping the shop and cleaning the toilet usually weeds put the poseurs pretty fast. As for coiling over/under or over/over the most important part for me is to not yank the cable and have the connector fly back and hit me in the b***s.
 

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