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Double Bass College Auditions 2006

#142
PaulCannon said:
Nine years would probably be plenty of data, but the data is half missing. The first three years only post a handful of audition results. And, as I said, there could be more useful information to it that isn't shown. I'm not saying kpo is lazy. The list is very useful, but it doesn't give a complete picture.
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Paul, I don't think the problems you list are "legitimate".

"Audition Winners" lists EVERY full time ICSOM bass audition that the AFM announced since I started taking auditions. It even includes orchestras like Seattle and New Orleans that don't always announce in the AFM newspaper, and you have to be somehow "in the loop" to hear about them.

It is NOT "selective" in any sense other than the audition must be for a full time ICSOM orchestra. I've even gone out of my way to list "one-year" full time ICSOM jobs when they're "announced". (some orchestras hold "secret" auditions for one-year openings)

If you, Paul, (or anyone!) can find an audition that was missed, then by all means (as the "winners list" thread suggests), point it out on that forum and it'll be added! Good luck, dude. If you think there were more auditions than "67"... well, it's entirely possible I missed one somewhere, but mainly I'd be concerned about Delusions students might be holding about how much work is actually available.

The huge glut of auditions over the past years is not normal, I'm told.

Yes, it's a huge glut to have 10 openings in one year! That's right! Probably over 100 reasonably good college bass players graduating in North America EVERY YEAR, yet you should feel lucky to have more than 4 ICSOM auditions.

We might be in the middle of a "golden age" - many US orchestras went full time in the late 60s to early 80s - before then it was just NY, Cleveland, Chicago, LA, maybe two or three others. The other 50 or so orchestras added tons of personnel in the 70s or so, and those folks are probably all retiring about now. It might be like this for a while, or it might be "over". Either way, get practicing.
 
#144
JGGBassPlya said:
If you are really considering all of these schools you might want to pick the one that has the better job placement rate so far......As I have seen only about two guys have come out of MSM in the past 4 years and they were Dan K. and Scott Pingel. Yes they got big jobs but they were both a lot older when they attended MSM. Both had already done their undergrads and Dan even did his masters at Yale before he went to MSM. Anyways just a thought.....
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I understand where you're coming from, but, in addition to the points already made, I'd like to point out that it's also that for most schools besides Indiana and Curtis. For example, according to the audition winners list thread, in the last four years Juilliard has only one job winner.
 
#146
It seems like a thread is needed that gives some stats on the different schools. Such as how many people graduate each year, what kind of careers are they pursuing, who they study under, who they have previously studied under. I know some people will study with multiple teachers at the same time. I guy that I went to Michigan State with studied with a member of the Detroit Symphony while he was studying with Mr. Budrow. There are a lot of facts like that that could give some more insight into the information posted on the "audition winners" thread. I do love the "audition winners" thread though.
 
#147
Cory Palmer said:
It seems like a thread is needed that gives some stats on the different schools. Such as how many people graduate each year, what kind of careers are they pursuing, who they study under, who they have previously studied under.
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The only problem with this is that the information on this website is tragically inaccurate. It is natural though, since most of it is second hand information. Many people hear about auditions from friends that took them and then report that information here. Information like this about colleges would most likely cause many prospective bass students to be misled. Perhaps this is one case that should actually be left to college admissions offices.
 
#148
Agreed. College Admissions offices really should be the ones to maintain and publish accurate lists of their school's "audition winners" (tempered with relevant info like graduation numbers, etc.). But almost none do anything of the sort. Hence KPO's "Audition Winners" fills that void 'til something better comes along.
 
#149
ILIA said:
Agreed. College Admissions offices really should be the ones to maintain and publish accurate lists of their school's "audition winners" (tempered with relevant info like graduation numbers, etc.). But almost none do anything of the sort. Hence KPO's "Audition Winners" fills that void 'til something better comes along.
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However, what this is failing to notice is that the number of "audition winners" as listed on this website is not an accurate account of how many players from each school go on to be successful professional musicians.
 
#150
Well here is my beef with everybody on this website. Good for Indiana and good for Curtis but the fact is there are still plenty of kids from Indiana and from Curtis who don't have jobs. The teacher doesnt make the student the student makes the teacher. Yes, there might a preferred style of the time which is where the teacher comes into play but if you're not good enough you're not gonna be good enough no matter what school you go to or what teacher you study with.

Everybody on this website should look for a place where they grow and they can learn. I've read that KPO went to Indiana for grad and was an education major for undergrad. But that was the best way for him to grow and he has a job.

Anybody still looking into colleges for next year and all the years after that, look for a teacher that you have chemistry with, a teacher that you feel comfortable with, and an environment where you believe you can learn. A great player can go to a great school but hate it and not get anything out of it.

This stuff about the auditions list not being complete because of the way it lists colleges and the auditions is just nonsensical. Everybody should be happy that somebody would actually take the time and post the winners online.
 
#151
sibass89 said:
Well here is my beef with everybody on this website. Good for Indiana and good for Curtis but the fact is there are still plenty of kids from Indiana and from Curtis who don't have jobs. The teacher doesnt make the student the student makes the teacher.
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Thank you. This has been on my mind for a while. a Great Teacher will not produce students who win jobs unless the students are doing good things too.
 
#153
EFischer1 said:
The only problem with this is that the information on this website is tragically inaccurate. It is natural though, since most of it is second hand information. Many people hear about auditions from friends that took them and then report that information here.
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Just for "disclosure's sake", on the "winners" thread, I've taken just under 30 of those listed auditions. For the auditions I didn't attend, I get info. from the Personnel Manger of each orchestra and/or get the scoop from audition finalists or the winners themselves.
 
#154
kpo said:
Just for "disclosure's sake", on the "winners" thread, I've taken just under 30 of those listed auditions. For the auditions I didn't attend, I get info. from the Personnel Manger of each orchestra and/or get the scoop from audition finalists or the winners themselves.
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But you must agree that some threads regarding auditions have been rediculous. There are always different versions of who went to the finals, etc.

My comment was directed less towards the winners thread (which i personally think is pretty cool - however controversial it may be) and more towards this website as a whole.
 
#156
[[This certainly seems to be true, and at IU it has resulted in an alarming drop in the number of bassists in the jazz program. Here, there is no jazz bass teacher, and it has been the tradition that bassists in the jazz program would just study with the classical teachers.

This was a problem last year when my son was doing the audition and school search thing. But I thought that they had resolved this and found a fulltime jazz professor?

IMO a fine school like IU should get this taken care ASAP.
 
#157
I auditioned for the Conservatory at Wheaton College, IL in November 05, accepted in December...I'm going in as a Music Composition major with bass as primary instrument, under the tutelage of Ms. Virginia Dixon. My major is subject to change, but I'm hoping to pursue bass.
 
#160
pedro said:
"This certainly seems to be true, and at IU it has resulted in an alarming drop in the number of bassists in the jazz program. Here, there is no jazz bass teacher, and it has been the tradition that bassists in the jazz program would just study with the classical teachers."

This was a problem last year when my son was doing the audition and school search thing. But I thought that they had resolved this and found a fulltime jazz professor?

IMO a fine school like IU should get this taken care ASAP.
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For the last school year, IU retained the services of a well-respected Louisville jazz bassist and teacher to teach the jazz bassists a lesson every other week. This turned out to be a temporary solution, and starting this fall the school will have a full-time jazz bass teacher offering weekly lessons and masterclasses to the bassists among the jazz studies majors. I can't say who it is because the official announcement hasn't been made, but hopefully good things will be happening here and jazz bassists will feel excited about coming to IU and learning alongside the excellent drummers who come here to study with Steve Houghton.
 

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