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Colleges?

i lack experience with colleges and i do not know anyone who pursued music in college, so i only have a general idea of what each major is. i don't know exactly what goes on in the class.

also another question. do colleges make you audition if you plan on doing performance?


Last question first, yes, expect to audition. I didn't major in music, but played in several ensembles in college. I was required to audition for the jazz band, every year I played. I only wanted to take private lessons, from the bass professor at the school I attended, however, I still had to audition for the school's orchestra, even though I had little interest in learning to play classical.

As far as the classes go, though I never took any actual music classes, it's a lot of work (my roommate was a performance major, and many of my friends were music majors as well.) History and Music Literature(from early early music to now), Theory(lots more than 12 scales), Aural Skills(learning to identify pitch and tone by ear, including singing), all of your lessons, ensembles, practice time in addition to the required basics for a BA.

Try taking some basics(english, history, math, etc) at community college, so you can get them out of the way, start over the summer, there are also, mini mesters over the winter holiday breaks, this will allow you to have the fundamentals of college being taken care of, so if the music doesn't end up jiving with you you don't have to start completely over in a different degree. Also, try AP and Clep testing for credit.

That all being said, if you truly love music, and as you say are aware it may not make you rich, do what you want in school. A lot of people will tell you what you should do, I had three different majors before I settled on something that really interested me.


Most important, have fun. Love what you're studying.

Adam
 
Don't go to school for music. Get a degree in something that will make you a good living.
Music College is a great experience but you are not guaranteed to make a living. Have a fall back position and do your music on the side while you go to school for whatever else you choose. Take advice from a 45 year old bassist who went to Berklee College of Music for performance. I learned a lot, meet some great players and improved my playing but if I had to do it again I would have gone to college for something else that would have gotten me a good paying job. And then did my music on the side. Good luck.

It may come as a shock, but I basically agree. However, if a young person gets a Bachelors of Music or a Bachelors of Arts (in music from a university or liberal arts college), they are getting a good general liberal arts background, which is as good or better than any liberal arts major (history, english, etc.) when it comes to getting a job, IMHO.
 
I graduated from Shenandoah College and Conservatory of Music in '78....from the college, mind you! Hate to be blunt but given your relatively limited background (upright? piano? voice?) and the stiff competition, I doubt if you would even be considered for an pre-entrance audition. Have you reviewed any of the admission criteria / requirements?

Riis
 
Care to trade places Jim? ;)

Nah, but thanks! :D

Even though I teach music for a living, my wife (a professional singer and also now a music professor) and I were too poor to have a family when the time was right. You are lucky!

I do understand what you are saying about hating ones day gig. But, I had to have plenty of those along the way. I think if I had it to do over, I would have gone into public school teaching and Music Education sooner.

The sad thing is that teachers and teaching are so disrespected. I have said it elsewhere on this forum: America hates teachers. It is part of our culture. That said, I know I am making a difference in my students lives. You should have heard my "Rock Lab" kids performing at the annual fund raiser last night. The middle school kids especially killed with the Stones "Paint it Black." :hyper:
 
You still have to take general ed classes. I doubt you'll have much leisure time.


+100 on visiting colleges to get your questions answered.


I hope so.


I took composition/theory at a local community college and there's no time to start learning the basics. There was also ear training class and you had to start naming intervals by ear that were played to you in class. It's not like you can say, "can you play that one again?"

If you're not already up on this stuff, it will certainly create some frustration, especially when competing with other students who can do this stuff in their sleep.

Do you already know how to read music? Did you play in the school band? Have you taken music/bass lessons?

You'll be competing with people who have 5 to 10 years of experience already. That's something you can't make up, no matter how hard/long you study. You have to be realistic.

My friend's son is a performance major at UCLA and he started playing clarinet at like 7-8 years old. He can sight read any music put in front of him. His dad has a great ear for music and so does he.

You need a whole lot more info before you make a decision.

+1

I totally agree that those with access to music education as kids are years ahead. I was not one of those. I did have church choir, piano, and french horn as a kid, and bought a bass at age 13, with help from my Dad and my lawn mowing business, but it was pretty haphazard.

My sight reading was pretty weak well into my undergraduate years, and it hurt me every step of the way in every thing I wanted to do with music. I finally caught up with my "peers" by some time after I had graduated.

In retrospect, I had no one to guide me, and got by on a great ear (trained by playing electric bass and figuring out a zillion bass lines), brains, imagination, and tons of determination. It can be done, but I spent years playing catch up without quite knowing how to do it and being afraid I couldn't do it.

The "joke" was on me. I could have done it right at first, I just did not know what to ask for, what I needed, and what sort of teacher to seek.

I would say to all younger bassists who want to become professional musicians, with the exception of those few who become instant stars by being in the right place at the right time (it's called blind luck): you have to learn it all.

By all, I mean reading, composing, keyboards, voice, technology, upright, electric, and of course I am including theory (ear training, sight singing, transcription/dictation, harmony, counterpoint, analysis, etc.), even music history helps.

You don't need school to do it, but without school, it is harder. Getting a gig as a bassist on a professional level will depend on your reading skills, your social skills/network, and your determination to find gigs. Having a school environment where others are setting a high standard can help, and it can also intimidate you. :eyebrow:
 
As a music major I'm going to +1 everything in this thread. Think about what you're getting yourself into.

You will likely have to audition. That means ear training, playing, sightreading, theory. You should have a decent understanding of music theory at least, be a proficient sightreader, and be able to identify intervals, chords, and scales by ear. You're most likely going to have to learn to sing, sightsing, and play basic piano. Playing electric won't get you very far. Most schools insist upon upright and many that do offer electric require you double on both. It's a difficult major, even if you're experienced with everything I mentioned.
 
Nah, but thanks! :D

Even though I teach music for a living, my wife (a professional singer and also now a music professor) and I were too poor to have a family when the time was right. You are lucky!

I do understand what you are saying about hating ones day gig. But, I had to have plenty of those along the way. I think if I had it to do over, I would have gone into public school teaching and Music Education sooner.

The sad thing is that teachers and teaching are so disrespected. I have said it elsewhere on this forum: America hates teachers. It is part of our culture. That said, I know I am making a difference in my students lives. You should have heard my "Rock Lab" kids performing at the annual fund raiser last night. The middle school kids especially killed with the Stones "Paint it Black." :hyper:

Well I sincerely doubt you were too poor to have kids. But I am lucky to have had the two I did have.

I personally think that there are a lot of misconceptions about music careers and a lot of musicians wanna bees tend to fail because they have unrealistic expectations and poor preparation (I include myself in this). In point of fact, IME, a lot of these wash outs would have washed out of any career if they had approached it in the same way. Some have the notion that they will only play one time of music. Many can't read music and many have goal of becoming the next Beatles. As a CPA that's roughly like wanting to become a successful CPA without being able to do math and only wanting to do tax returns for busty blond models with the expectation that my level of success is that I will be the next Price Waterhouse. That is failure waiting to happen. OTOH, if you are prepared to be versitile, dependable and well prepared. If you are willing to do a wide variety of gigs with a positive attitude you and define 'success' more realistically, then I think you can make a good life for yourself as a musician.

My $.02.
 
Are there any general music classes i can get into in order to learn these skills? or does everything for music require an audition?

As far as I know an audition is required to major in music regardless of field. I've never really heard otherwise but you might not have to for therapy or ethnomusicology or something like that. It varies from school to school, though.
 
As far as I know an audition is required to major in music regardless of field. I've never really heard otherwise but you might not have to for therapy or ethnomusicology or something like that. It varies from school to school, though.

what if i entered, did a general music class while polishing my skills for the first year, as well as getting my gen. ed. classes out of the way in the process. Then declare music my major my second year and auditioned then. any input on this thought? or any other suggestions? is this even possible?
 
good plan. take a music class that could also count as an elective toward a different degree. take some general classes and figure out what you want to do. i know you REALLY want to be a music major. life changes so much during the first year of college, consider that a year from now you may have totally different goals, and take some general ed classes so any possible change can be positive rather than disastrous.

are you taking AP classes? you know even if you dont take AP classes you can still take the test? depending on what school you go to, you can get an average score on an AP test and get 6 hours of credit. you need to look into getting as many hours of credit out of the way as possible. also think about taking some summer school classes for subjects that are more challenging for you because 1)they are easier in community college and 2) many credits transfer just as credit with no grades attached. so if you get a C in a hard course at community college it wont affect your GPA. you need to learn about this stuff. i started college with 36 hrs of credit and believe me i was thankful. saved a whole year because i took a few tests. saved a lot of money too.

GOOD LUCK!
 
Are there any general music classes i can get into in order to learn these skills? or does everything for music require an audition?


I think you meant to ask this question: "Can I take courses in college to prepare for being a music major?"

90% of all music courses are "Music Majors Only." Even the majors have a hard time getting into all the classes they need. Yes, there is usually one course called something like "Introduction to Music" that many schools have for everyone else. To expect this to prepare you for majoring in music would be like expecting knowing the names of the major components of an automobile (engine, transmission, differential, brakes, wheels, tires, steering mechanism, suspension, electrical system, fuel system, etc.) to enable you to drive. It might help, it can't hurt, but it won't do the job.

Playing solo concert repertoire on an instrument, reading music fairly well in at least treble and bass clef, singing basic melodies at sight, notating simple music correctly, identifing intervals, keys, chords, and scales, from notation and by ear, and understanding how to work in an ensemble are basic essentials that enable you to do something even more important: play and learn a large amount of music on an instrument that has a significant solo repertoire, and develop a sophisticated set of cognitive musical skills for expressive playing and understanding what you hear. None of this comes from reading books or listening to professors. It all comes from hundreds--even thousands of hours of practice, not just on your instrument, but also practicing increasingly difficult music reading, written theory/analysis, and hearing tasks.

This bit about learning a large amount of solo music is where we electric bassists have real problems. The repertoire for our instrument is probably the largest there is in terms of the sheer amount of music using our instrument, but is also one of the smallest in relation to standard works that can be played with the bass as the principle voice in a concert setting.

That's one of the main reasons electric bass often "gets no respect." Even the double bass has issues there.

But none of this blather is going to help you, really. What you need is a year or 2 of intensive study with a teacher who will teach you to read music, notate it, listen to it, and understand it. That is a big job and such teachers are hard to find, cost a lot, and can be really hard to deal with.

Another good bet is to find a local conservatory that has an "Extension Division." This is a division where you do not earn a degree or credit, and you don't have to audition. You are, in effect, a cash cow, though these types of things are usually not as expensive as regular conservatory classes. They are part-time programs (take as few or many courses as you want), usually for young people and older adults. I think San Francisco Conservatory has this. Mannes School in New York used to have such a program, as did Juilliard. You can start with the basics in theory and ear training, and take lessons on double bass privately while you learn theory in classes. Convincing one's parents that this is a good idea would probably be as hard as actually getting into a music school. :D

I would emphasize again that piano is essential. To learn piano, you really need a piano (not a cheap electronic keyboard), a real teacher, and the will to practice every single day.

Doing all of this while in college is very very difficult. Most college freshmen have a hard enough time fitting their homework, sleep, meals, exercise, and laundry around their grueling party and hang schedule! And Oh darn, I forgot about going to classes...ha ha ha, that's supposed to be funny!

Yet, I'm serious. Actually getting things of use done in college is very hard for most kids in the first couple of years. To do your school work and catch up to the music majors is a tall order. I know, I tried and it was a miserable life. I was behind almost every one, and never did catch up while I was an undergrad. It took me 7 years to get a college degree. The first year was spent in a different major, 2 years were then spent out of school, and then 3 and a half back as a music major to get my B.A. in music. I then proceeded to take 3 more semesters of undergraduate music courses at two other schools to catch up so I could actually compete in graduate school.

Oh yeah, before I became a music major, I got a high number in the military draft lottery so I didn't have to go to Vietnam, and spent those 2 years year out of school learning enough to play a fairly pathetic double bass audition, which did however, succeed in getting me into the local college music program. I also spent that time out of school gigging and actually making a good living as a bassist--I needed to pay for a double bass and teacher, a piano and teacher, an ear training teacher, stereo, LPs, books, apartment, reliable used car, etc. I supported my self-designed study solely by playing electric bass in bar bands.

That was in the early '70s when the drinking age was 18, the bars were always full, nearly all had live music, and typical gigs were 5 nights a week paying $100 a night per player. Sorry for the trip down "memory lane," but times have changed. Due to inflation, that $500 a week in 1971 is like making $2000 a week in 2008. Try to find a bass gig that pays like that now, they are very rare! Seasoned adult pros are competing for them. In this day and age, far fewer paying gigs exist, and expectations are (sadly) that young people will get on with things a bit faster. Hope this helps--at least a little. :cool: