Double Bass Combination of Ehrlund and Full Circle with Headway EDB-1

[Seba]

Hey Guys,

I'm currently set up with a nice czech carved urb, a fishman full circle pick up going through pro eq platinum into my markacoustic ac121. On most of my gigs I add a markbass traveller 102 for more punch and clarity. All nice gear but I don't feel like i'm getting the sound i'm looking for. My bass often sounds heavy around 100hz but if i cut to much, i lose balance in my sound. I don't know if you see what I mean, it's difficult for me to get a clear but still beautiful sound at high volumes and even when I get it, it doesn't sound like my bass... Also I have the impression that the fishman preamp sounds compressed, even with the compressor turned off.

So first of all I'm looking for a new preamp. The Headway EDB-1 caught my eye, a lot of you guys are really enthousiastic about it. I'm pretty sure that will be my next buy.

But while browsing this forum, I also caught interest in the Ehrlund pu. I listened to some audio clips here: Invalid Link Removed . Allthough I feel like it's a bit thin in the mid area, I really like that it has a lot of bottom and top high. I think that it would be awesome in combination with the full circle because they focus on the different areas of the urb sound. What do you guys think about this?

I was also wondering if it was necessary to buy the Ehrlund preamp. Ric Vice said that for him, it sounded better with the Ehrlund pu than the EDB-1. So I was wondering if it would be a good idea to blend the two pickups with the headway but send the Ehrlund pu through the Ehrlund preamp before it goes into the headway. Does this sound silly to you? I figured that this would be the ultimate combination for the sound I'm looking for. Off course, i would prefer playing with a microphone but as I mostly play in big venues and loud situations, this just isn't an option.

I'm looking forward to you thoughts and comments, thanks a lot!

Seba

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I'd start with an fdeck HPFpre. It carves away the heavy bottom without messing around with the nice low mids, and you can adjust it to taste. It's also way cheaper than a Headway, and may solve your problem for you for a lot less $$$. Read about it here: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f4/review-new-pre-amp-high-pass-filter-346669/

 

[Marc Piane]

Wow. The tone for every single one of those audio clips is awful. I forgot how bad pickup straight to board is...


I use the Fishman Platinum Pro. Another option. I've heard the f-deck thingy is great. The Fishman has a few more features but is a few more $.

 

[Ric Vice]

Hey Guys,

So first of all I'm looking for a new preamp. The Headway EDB-1 caught my eye, a lot of you guys are really enthousiastic about it. I'm pretty sure that will be my next buy.

I could never get the Headway to work with either the Realist or the Ehrlund. I even had it modified to lower the output on Channel 1 so the Realist would work, but that makes the signal two week for the Ehrlund, the Ehrlund Pre amp works so well on my bass that I have no need to blend two pickups.

Allthough I feel like it's a bit thin in the mid area, I really like that it has a lot of bottom and top high. I think that it would be awesome in combination with the full circle because they focus on the different areas of the urb sound. What do you guys think about this?

I wouldn't base my evaluation of the Ehrlund on the sound cloud clips. The Ehrlund sounds way better live. It's not really a recording device IMHO.

I was also wondering if it was necessary to buy the Ehrlund preamp. Ric Vice said that for him, it sounded better with the Ehrlund pu than the EDB-1.

So I was wondering if it would be a good idea to blend the two pickups with the headway but send the Ehrlund pu through the Ehrlund preamp before it goes into the headway. Does this sound silly to you? I figured that this would be the ultimate combination for the sound I'm looking for. Off course, i would prefer playing with a microphone but as I mostly play in big venues and loud situations, this just isn't an option.

Just to many boxes to have to mess with for me. That's going to put three pre amps in a row, so I have no idea how well that will work. Just my opinion though as I've never tried it.

I'm looking forward to you thoughts and comments, thanks a lot!

Seba

 

[Seba]

I could never get the Headway to work with either the Realist or the Ehrlund. I even had it modified to lower the output on Channel 1 so the Realist would work, but that makes the signal two week for the Ehrlund, the Ehrlund Pre amp works so well on my bass that I have no need to blend two pickups.

I wouldn't base my evaluation of the Ehrlund on the sound cloud clips. The Ehrlund sounds way better live. It's not really a recording device IMHO.

Just to many boxes to have to mess with for me. That's going to put three pre amps in a row, so I have no idea how well that will work. Just my opinion though as I've never tried it.

Hey ric, thanks for your reply! I'm glad the ehrlund is great for you. I just was wondering what kind of music you play. Maybe that way I can imagine what kind of sound you're after. I play some jazz now and then, my first love, but right now it's mainly jazzy pop or chanson that puts food on the table. As I said before, i often find myself in pretty loud situations and therefore I like a lot of mid to cut through the mix, so does my sound engineer. That's why I imagined the combination of the ehrlund and the full circle to be usefull.

What was it about the headway that didn't work with the ehrlund for you? I talked to Jonas Lohse (from kontrabas-atelier, Germany, he sells both ehrlund and headway). He confirmed that the ehrlund pre matched the pu beautifully and said he always adviced to use them together. But he also said that if I was going to combine two pu's, I should start off with the full circle and add some ehrlund for extra colour. In this situation I wouldn't need the full potential of the pu and the headway would be good enough to do the job.

And Chris, as for the fdeck pre, I'm really interested, it gets a lot of attention here! Only too bad that it doesn't ship to europe... But still I think maybe the ehrlund is better off with it's dedicated pu.

I think the problem with my sound is of a subsonic kind, due to not having any hpf on my fishman platinum... But this should be solved with the headway. Right? I also like that it has a good eq section. Because I play in very different kind of situations, I like to be able to control the sound a bit more than just gain and hpf....

What about the radial pz-pre? Anyone who uses this with full circle and/or ehrlund? And how is it in comparison to the headway?

Cheers!

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

And Chris, as for the fdeck pre, I'm really interested, it gets a lot of attention here! Only too bad that it doesn't ship to europe... But still I think maybe the ehrlund is better off with it's dedicated pu.

I think the problem with my sound is of a subsonic kind, due to not having any hpf on my fishman platinum... But this should be solved with the headway. Right? I also like that it has a good eq section. Because I play in very different kind of situations, I like to be able to control the sound a bit more than just gain and hpf....

You'll have a limited HPF on the Headway, as it's a switch rather than a knob. In the "Bass" position, it rolls of at about 40 Hz, in the "Guitar" position, at about 80 hz, and in the "Violin" position at about 200 hz. The last is unusable for bass, but the second position can be very useful. The regular EQ on the unit is also very musical.

 

[Ric Vice]

Hey ric, thanks for your reply! I'm glad the ehrlund is great for you. I just was wondering what kind of music you play. Maybe that way I can imagine what kind of sound you're after. I play some jazz now and then, my first love, but right now it's mainly jazzy pop or chanson that puts food on the table. As I said before, i often find myself in pretty loud situations and therefore I like a lot of mid to cut through the mix, so does my sound engineer. That's why I imagined the combination of the ehrlund and the full circle to be usefull.

Seba,
I do a variety of gigs from jazz concerts in theaters, to cabaret shows, musicals, and even pop gigs where I tend to use my Lakland 55-94 5 string EB. With the Ehrlund the bass sounds like the bass sounds without an amp, but much louder. I've even used it with a 12 piece big band.

What was it about the headway that didn't work with the ehrlund for you? I talked to Jonas Lohse (from kontrabas-atelier, Germany, he sells both ehrlund and headway). He confirmed that the ehrlund pre matched the pu beautifully and said he always adviced to use them together.

I got the Headway EDB-1 to use as a blender between a DPA 4099 mic and the Realist. Unfortunately, the gain structure on the Headway was hot for the Realist, so I couldn't get a good blend because I could barely turn the Channel 1 gain on at all before it hit feedback. I sent the unit to Headway and they fixed the problem. In the meantime I got the Ehrlund. The modified Headway doesn't have enough gain for the Ehrlund.

But he also said that if I was going to combine two pu's, I should start off with the full circle and add some ehrlund for extra colour. In this situation I wouldn't need the full potential of the pu and the headway would be good enough to do the job.

That sounds reasonable to me, my approach is different as I'm not using the Ehrlund as a mic to blend with another pickup, but in louder situations, that may be the way to go.

 

[Seba]

Thanks a lot for your replies, very much appreciated!

The modified Headway doesn't have enough gain for the Ehrlund.

So you're saying that the headway didn't have enough gain after it was modified, so normally with an unmodified model, there wouldn't have been a problem.

I think I'm going to go with the headway instead of the tonebone pz-pre. The latter is a lot more expensive and I think that the difference between the two isn't that big. Plus it's going to be handy to be able to use a microphone, some day...

 

[Ric Vice]

Thanks a lot for your replies, very much appreciated!

So you're saying that the headway didn't have enough gain after it was modified, so normally with an unmodified model, there wouldn't have been a problem.

I think I'm going to go with the headway instead of the tonebone pz-pre. The latter is a lot more expensive and I think that the difference between the two isn't that big. Plus it's going to be handy to be able to use a microphone, some day...

Seba,
Essentially, yes, although I never got to try it that way. My guess is it would do the job nicely.

Ric

 

[Michelsen]

Hi !

Interesting topic here.

Is there anyone who could compare the Ehrlund pickup trough Ehrlund pre v.s. th Ehrlund trough FDeck pre ?

I just got myself the FDeck III and I'm interested if it would do the job for Ehrlund. Not too interested in paying extra for another preamp that would be used only for one pu.

Cheers !

 

[Ric Vice]

Hi !

Interesting topic here.

Is there anyone who could compare the Ehrlund pickup trough Ehrlund pre v.s. th Ehrlund trough FDeck pre ?

I just got myself the FDeck III and I'm interested if it would do the job for Ehrlund. Not too interested in paying extra for another preamp that would be used only for one pu.

Cheers !

Michelsen,
In a word, no, the 2 DB Gain, that the the HPF provides is to little to be beneficial for the signal coming of the Ehrlund EAP. It needs the proprietary Pre Amp, designed by Goran Ehrlund, specifically for his pickup. One side benefit, is that Ehrlund Pre Amp works with other piezo pickups, just as well as it does with the EAP. I've used it with the bridge wing pickups, on my Clevenger EUB, and it dramatically improved the tone quality. It's not just a one trick pony. But even if it was, that preamp, IMHO, is worth every penny. Your other option would be to purchase the Headway EDB-1.

Ric

 

[Michelsen]

Thanks for the answer!

What if I have the Empress ParaEq after the Fdeck, which has an optional boost ( up to 30db I guess ). Would that chain be able to get the best out of the Ehrlund ? End of the chain would be LMIII and TC115AF.

 

[Ric Vice]

Thanks for the answer!

What if I have the Empress ParaEq after the Fdeck, which has an optional boost ( up to 30db I guess ). Would that chain be able to get the best out of the Ehrlund ? End of the chain would be LMIII and TC115AF.

Michelsen,

It certainly looks like that would work, but there's only one way to know for certain, and that's to try it out. You have a great amp, and a stellar cabinet with the AudioKinesis Thunderchild 115 (acoustic friendly) cabinet. Personally, I abore all those little boxes in the signal chain, but that's just my opinion. When I use the FDeck it's inserted into my effects loop, not at the front end before the Ehrlund Pre.

That's the advantage in having two Walter Woods amps. You simply don't need all that extra EQ and boost. The Ehrlund Pre Amp is the perfect match. Goran states pretty emphatically that the EAP works the best with his Pre Amp, and I'm inclined to agree with him. You can get the EAP on a trial from Gollihur music, that way if it doesn't work you can return it.

Ric

 

[doublehorn]

Hey Seba, I see this thread started a good while ago, but I'm interested in how your amplification project worked out if you ever got that far. I'm considering a setup that's similar:

1. Thompson RM-100 plywood Gamba
2. Full Circle or Realist Lifeline
3. Ehrlund EAP or DPA 4099
4. Blended through Acoustic Image Clarus 2 channel head
5. Out to Ten2 Ex and/or DI to house

Pretty sure this will sound amazing at modest volumes with as much mic as possible, but I'm curious if you'd had a chance to test your Ehrlund/Full Circle combo at louder house volumes? If so, what percentage of mic sound were you able to blend in a loud room? Of course I recognize this will just be a guess, but I'm starting from zero practical knowledge of a blended mic/piezo system, so even a rough estimate is a great start.

Dale.