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Comments on these gig behaviors?

U

unicornman

Nov 15, 2013
5
0
#1
I'm a jazz musician (bass) but I also book acts now and then when my group isn't available (I sometimes have the enviable position of being both a client, and a band leader simultaneously). This was kind of between a restaurant gig and a corporate gig as the client was not the restaurant, it was a chamber of commerce, with sponsors for the band for the evening.

Anyway, I called a local jazz group to do a gig. We agreed on a price which was medium to high payscale for the town and style and music...I provided a system for them to use, which I lugged and setup myself since they said they didn't have one and I just wanted to get the booking finalized....which made the deal even sweeter for them. (I later found out they DID have one -- the keyboard player let it slip).

On the gig, the leader of the group did a few things I would like opinions on -- are these good behaviors, or no?

1. Arrived to set up on time (7:30), but complained about the fact there wasn't a lot of space for the group (I've played in smaller).

2. When asked to start the gig 10 minutes early due to a restless crowd, balked. Said contract start time was 8:00 pm so he would start then. I explained he could stop playing 10 minutes early at the end of the night then. So, they played.

3. On second break, asked me to get the restaurant we were at to give all members of the band food. This wasn't something I'd agreed to beforehand, and it wasn't a catered dinner -- it was to help the restaurant generate profits for the evening by bringing our organization there.

Further, the restaurant owner hadn't agreed to do this for the band either. Plus the break was only 10 minutes which wasn't enough time to order for everyone, get it to the table, and then eat it -- we'd packed the place with guests and the restaurant staff was really busy.

4. Toward the end of the evening, on their last break, some of the people started dancing and having a good time to some recorded music. However, there was a strong jazz crowd who came specifically for jazz. And the event was billed as a jazz event.

When I asked the band leader to start their third set, he balked saying that people were having a good time dancing. He said with that group of people, it would be a downer on the evening to switch back to jazz.

I went along with this band leaders' desired approach, although I would've rathered he played like I wanted -- to please the jazz crowd. The event was billed as a jazz event. As a result, the band ended up playing for only 70% of the time we asked for.

I personally was shocked by these behaviors from the band leader.

As a band leader myself, I would have started when the client asked me to start, played when the client asked me to play, made do with the space or suggested an alternative if it was impossible. If I'd forgotten to negotiate food and watering for the band, I wouldn't have asked for it on the night of the gig.

Comments? Was this guy out of line on any of these points, or am I just an over-accommodating band leader when my own groups perform at corporate-like functions like these?
 
#3
I wouldn't book this group again. I completely agree with your take on how it should be handled. Playing these gigs is about honoring a commitment and pleasing the crowd and the person who pays you, not the egos of the band. It quite often happens the gig doesn't go to plan because the event unfolds a bit different than intended, because the space is cramped, because the loading in and out is more tricky than expected, because someone in the kitchen miscalculated on the amount of food, etc. So you adapt and do what the buyer wants you to do, and you make it work. Bitching about a ten minute change is just pathetic, really. Be flexible on the other hand and you will get called on for more gigs.
 
#5
While I agree with you & with the comments entirely, there's also a lesson for you in addressing these issues in advance when booking the gig. Food & drink should never be an expectation, but since they are often included in that kind of setting, are worth bringing up in advance. Similarly, spelling out break length or set times can at least give you some leverage, even though you won't often need to use it. In any case, these folks sound very unprofessional, and are the very reason why tight contracts and advance communication can be helpful, IME.
 
#6
1 is just silly. "Hold on, I'll build an extension for you"
2 a contract is a contract. It's a bad move to be so little flexible though, there are plenty of bands, it's easy to loose gigs by being like this.
3 if food was not in the contract, there's no food for the band (it would have been wise by you to have clarified that explicitely in the contract, as to avoid misunderstandings)
4 they effectively broke the contract, but it was a very bad idea to put unrelated music on during the break, whoever did that.
 
#7
IME:

1. Define 'complaining'; was it just a remark on the fact that the stage was a bit small and they prefer a bigger stage, or is it bitching about a small stage? I wouldn't make a problem with a remark: he says he prefers a bigger stage and than the group members would feel more comfortable (but they will make the best of it on the smaller stage). Bitching about it would not pass: the space is what it is. So play on the smaller stage or go

2. Not ok: band should have some flexibility, and have to 'read' a crowd a bit. If they want music, let them have it. (10 min. won't kill you).

3. Over here (in Belgium), most of the time food will be provided for a band (be it sandwiches, fast food, a meal...), so for me it is quite normal to ask for it. Then again, if you didn't agree on it beforehand, than that would be a no, certanly if you see that the restaurant is having trouble coping with the ongoing orders. If band wanted food, they should've asked before the gig.

4. Tricky question. I don't know what I would do. Like the BL said: it could've ruined the night; people dancing and having a good time are contagious and generate a certain vibe. You don't want to become a party-pooper. On the other hand if there was a big(ger) jazz crowd; then they should've played because there were more people demanding a jazz-night. Bottom line: this is about 'reading' the crowd, and that is a decision you (who gave the band a contract) have to make; you pay their paycheck, so you decide.
 
#8
1. is a bit irritating but not worth worrying about
2. is a ridiculous thing to do
3. is a bit "douche"-y but should have been sorted out in advance on the contract
4. is both good and bad. Considering the vibe of the crowd is an essential part of being a musician, but the client is (nearly) always king.
 
#9
1. C'est la vie, some people are going to whine. Tell 'm to play HK or Tokyo to experience serious space constraints.
2. If they were ready to go at 10 minutes-to-8pm, they should play when you asked. If a band member was in the loo or whatever when you asked them to start early, they should start ASAP.
3. Gig at restaurant, hmm no brainer – food will be expected. Food should be negotiated by both parties in advance ie "when", not "if". Given your situation of not having discussed food, I would've made the magnanimous gesture of procuring food for the band either before or after they played given the short breaks.
4. Band should've kept the great mood going with uptempo swing numbers that people could dance to. If the person hiring you says "Play", regardless of what the crowd wants/does, you play.

Band leader was unprofessional and splitting hairs, shot himself in the foot. I wouldn't hire him again, and I wouldn't want to be in his band.

unicornman said:
...

As a band leader myself, I would have started when the client asked me to start, played when the client asked me to play, made do with the space or suggested an alternative if it was impossible. If I'd forgotten to negotiate food and watering for the band, I wouldn't have asked for it on the night of the gig.

...
Click to expand...

As a (sometimes) band leader myself (well, when I book the gig),
- I would have started when the client asked me to start,
- played when the client asked me to play,
- made do with the space or suggested an alternative if it was impossible.

If I'd forgotten to negotiate food and watering for the band, I WOULD ASK (politely) for it on the night of the gig at an appropriate time, and to have it served at an appropriate time (not on a 10 minute break), and I would've paid for it for the rest of the band out of my own pocket if the client wasn't willing to.

Gotta eat... No, really. I mean right now. Brunch-time...
 
#10
The guy you hired is not professional. Sure, the food should have been negotiated up front. But when it wasn't, it should not have been ASSUMED FREE by the BL you hired. No way no how.

That being said, you may have learned some lessons from this as well. Details up front. Make a check list for gigs you book. Things you need to go over with the band. Just save a Word document and print it out for every gig. Then check things off as you cover them (either on paper or verbally).

Set up time.
Start time.
Breaks and set times.
Finish time.
FLEXIBILITY on those times (if warranted). If you need to start early, you can end early. If you start late, be prepared to end late.
Food.
Travel expenses.
Lodging.
Things the band requires of you or the venue (rider).
PA.
Fees/pay.
Repertoire (kinds of music to be played).
Dress (formal/casual.... any special requirements)

But ALL of your points are valid. This guy was being hard to get along with.

And, again, free food is NEVER assumed. NEVER EVER. (Especially on a 10 minute break????? Really?)

And would someone PLEASE tell me why clubs play off genre music during set breaks? I can't tell you how many times I have played in a COUNTRY band and during the set breaks they play house music (or some kind of pop dance music). Or to play pop music during set breaks of a JAZZ show? Ridiculous. And, yes, it CAN be a downer when you start back if they like that music better than your set. So why do it?
 
#11
1 and 2 are minor, kvetchy things, seems to me. It occurs to me, particularly looking at #2, that maybe this guy has been burned in the past by clients who didn't stick to the contract - he may have feared a "slippery slope" of being asked to do more and more for no compensation. 3, it doesn't seem so unreasonable to me that he would ask, though of course it should have been made explicit beforehand. I don't know what medium to high payscale is for your town, but most gigs don't pay very big money, and not to eat dinner at home, then arrive to find you're not getting fed like you'd assumed, is certainly a downer. I had a restaurant sub gig recently where the BL DID say we'd be getting food, then in the second break said, "By the way, that guy at the bar over there is paying for our dinners, we should thank him" - which was great, except that it implied that if said guy hadn't sprung for our dinners, we would have had to pay for them ourselves. Ticked me off a bit.

#4 is the serious one. Even so, I'm not sure what you really mean by "balked." Did he say, "No, we're not going to play and interrupt the dancing", or did he say "Are you sure you want us to play now, when people are having such a good time?" If he dug his heels in and refused to play what he'd been paid for, then you're absolutely right, and never hire him again. But if he just asked a question, and was willing to go along with your decision, then it was YOUR decision not to have the band play the third set and that's no reflection on the band.
 
#12
All of this seems overblown IMO except the part about not wanting to play the last set.

Bands will complain about space whenever they feel they have to compromise their usual routine...but will always deal with it. Not something to dwell on.

Asking to start 10 minutes early may not seem like a big deal, but what's the difference, it's 10 minutes either way...what's wrong with just waiting for the stated time to start?

The food thing...it's human nature to try and get a little more out of a situation, just be prepared to say no. Perhaps if they started early as asked, putting on a stellar performance and brought a nice crowd with them they might feel they deserve to get a food hook-up.

The balking at the start of the last set does puzzle me a bit...but then I love to play, and if I am hired to play, then I am playing. People will understand because that's what was advertised. Did these guys lay an egg or something? I would understand not wanting to continue if the crowd was simply not into it but I'd never suggest it myself.

At the end of it all, this seems like a typical interaction with musicians.
 
#15
unicornman said:
Anyway, I called a local jazz group to do a gig. We agreed on a price which was medium to high payscale for the town and style and music...I provided a system for them to use, which I lugged and setup myself since they said they didn't have one and I just wanted to get the booking finalized....which made the deal even sweeter for them. (I later found out they DID have one -- the keyboard player let it slip).

...

4. Toward the end of the evening, on their last break, some of the people started dancing and having a good time to some recorded music. However, there was a strong jazz crowd who came specifically for jazz. And the event was billed as a jazz event.

When I asked the band leader to start their third set, he balked saying that people were having a good time dancing. He said with that group of people, it would be a downer on the evening to switch back to jazz.

I went along with this band leaders' desired approach, although I would've rathered he played like I wanted -- to please the jazz crowd. The event was billed as a jazz event. As a result, the band ended up playing for only 70% of the time we asked for.
Click to expand...

I'll address just these two issues :

First, unless there is a sound system installed at the venue then it is up to the band to provide it. Of course, this is a negotiable point but I think you went beyond the call of duty by providing it.

Second, if it is a jazz event and billed as one then nothing other than jazz should have been played between sets. That was a mistake.

I would definitely NOT hire this band again.

Of course, those are just my opinions.
 
#16
It all sounds a bit 'meh' to me.

1. How did you respond? I would have chuckled and said "Yep, it's small. But I'll tell you about this one place..."

2. Of very little consequence, given it was only ten minutes.

3. Food should have been discussed beforehand. And, it's a restaurant gig - do you really blame them for making the assumption?

4. The BL was probably right. Did you ask him if his band could play some uptempo stuff to keep the vibe? Who was in charge of music between sets?

Did the band play well? Did the overall event go to plan? Did the audience enjoy themselves? Did the restaurant make a pile of money?
 
#19
unicornman said:
I'm a jazz musician (bass) but I also book acts now and then when my group isn't available (I sometimes have the enviable position of being both a client, and a band leader simultaneously). This was kind of between a restaurant gig and a corporate gig as the client was not the restaurant, it was a chamber of commerce, with sponsors for the band for the evening.

Anyway, I called a local jazz group to do a gig. We agreed on a price which was medium to high payscale for the town and style and music...I provided a system for them to use, which I lugged and setup myself since they said they didn't have one and I just wanted to get the booking finalized....which made the deal even sweeter for them. (I later found out they DID have one -- the keyboard player let it slip).

On the gig, the leader of the group did a few things I would like opinions on -- are these good behaviors, or no?

1. Arrived to set up on time (7:30), but complained about the fact there wasn't a lot of space for the group (I've played in smaller).

2. When asked to start the gig 10 minutes early due to a restless crowd, balked. Said contract start time was 8:00 pm so he would start then. I explained he could stop playing 10 minutes early at the end of the night then. So, they played.

3. On second break, asked me to get the restaurant we were at to give all members of the band food. This wasn't something I'd agreed to beforehand, and it wasn't a catered dinner -- it was to help the restaurant generate profits for the evening by bringing our organization there.

Further, the restaurant owner hadn't agreed to do this for the band either. Plus the break was only 10 minutes which wasn't enough time to order for everyone, get it to the table, and then eat it -- we'd packed the place with guests and the restaurant staff was really busy.

4. Toward the end of the evening, on their last break, some of the people started dancing and having a good time to some recorded music. However, there was a strong jazz crowd who came specifically for jazz. And the event was billed as a jazz event.

When I asked the band leader to start their third set, he balked saying that people were having a good time dancing. He said with that group of people, it would be a downer on the evening to switch back to jazz.

I went along with this band leaders' desired approach, although I would've rathered he played like I wanted -- to please the jazz crowd. The event was billed as a jazz event. As a result, the band ended up playing for only 70% of the time we asked for.

I personally was shocked by these behaviors from the band leader.

As a band leader myself, I would have started when the client asked me to start, played when the client asked me to play, made do with the space or suggested an alternative if it was impossible. If I'd forgotten to negotiate food and watering for the band, I wouldn't have asked for it on the night of the gig.

Comments? Was this guy out of line on any of these points, or am I just an over-accommodating band leader when my own groups perform at corporate-like functions like these?
Click to expand...

Yupp...I think I'd do it like that too,mostly.
Trying to stick to the terms ,laid out in the contract I'd still be flexible within reason.
 
#20
It's hard to judge having not been there or meeting/speaking to the BL. Nothing he complained about seams to be unreasonable, but it may be how he said things that made it an issue. Some people just are crappy communicators. Everything they say can sound like a complaint and they may not even realize it. (I find myself doing this far too often.)

Again, nothing seams unreasonable from either end. You'll just have to make the call if you thought the BL was a douche or not. Maybe he was having a bad day? Maybe you were?

Good luck!
 

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