Comparing Plugins to Actual Amps in a DAW...

[SoulReflection]

Thought it would be great to hear from others who have done this.

For example, I have found a .vst plugin for Bassdude to be better than what I can get direct from my Rumble 100. Same with a B15 plugin compared to my PF-20T amp direct.

I haven't compared using mic'd cabs but, the plugins have different cabs. Does that make a great difference?

What has been your experience?

 

[silky smoove]

You're comparing a DI out with no DSP to a signal processed through an amp and cab sim, both of which will introduce significant HPF and LPF along with additional EQ, harmonic excitation, and possibly compression. It's no wonder you prefer one over the other as they're vastly different.

I haven't compared using mic'd cabs but, the plugins have different cabs. Does that make a great difference?

Principally it will alter the knee frequency and slope of the associated LPF, which is likely to be a resonant filter. There's more to it than that, but that's like 90% of it.

 

[SoulReflection]

You're comparing a DI out with no DSP to a signal processed through an amp and cab sim, both of which will introduce significant HPF and LPF along with additional EQ, harmonic excitation, and possibly compression. It's no wonder you prefer one over the other as they're vastly different.


Principally it will alter the knee frequency and slope of the associated LPF, which is likely to be a resonant filter. There's more to it than that, but that's like 90% of it.

Thanks for responding but, could you explain that in common terms?

 

[ClusterFlux]

Modeling or profile plugins aren't going to be a perfect match to hardware. However, they're going to be close enough that in the mix, the differences won't matter.

Plus, with hardware, the basic tone is baked in to the recording. With plugins, you can tweak the tone indefinitely. That level of control alone makes it a better option 9 times out of 10.

And of course, a lot of bassists record using DI anyway. So, you might as well get used to that, and use plugins to adjust your tone.

 

[SoulReflection]

Modeling or profile plugins aren't going to be a perfect match to hardware. However, they're going to be close enough that in the mix, the differences won't matter.

Plus, with hardware, the basic tone is baked in to the recording. With plugins, you can tweak the tone indefinitely. That level of control alone makes it a better option 9 times out of 10.

And of course, a lot of bassists record using DI anyway. So, you might as well get used to that, and use plugins to adjust your tone.

Thanks for the info.

 

[silky smoove]

Thanks for responding but, could you explain that in common terms?

Which parts tripped you up? All of it was common vernacular for this industry.

 

[Lowbrow]

Thanks for responding but, could you explain that in common terms?

Oh you

 

[Lowbrow]

Which parts tripped you up? All of it was common vernacular for this industry.

No need to get all defensive because someone pointed out that your answer was technical and overwrought. I’ll admit that is perfectly pitched for someone in ‘the industry,’ but maybe not so much for a player.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

HPF = High Pass Filter.
LPF = Low Pass Filter.
Resonant frequency will boost within a narrow frequency range.

The DI has flatter frequency response.

 

[Lowbrow]

Sorry, OP I opened this cause I wanted to respond but got sidetracked. With plenty of practical experience using both the direct to vst is the way to go. There’s so much flexibility to what you can do that you can get about anywhere.

 

[silky smoove]

No need to get all defensive because someone pointed out that your answer was technical and overwrought. I’ll admit that is perfectly pitched for someone in ‘the industry,’ but maybe not so much for a player.

In addition to condescension, you’ve misinterpreted my post. The OP didn’t get what I said, so I asked for clarification on what was confusing. It’s easier to help someone if you know what confused what them.

 

[mmon77]

With plugins, assuming the person who created it is competent, they've done most of the "hard work" for you. They've used a good mic or mics, placed them correctly, added some matching eq, filtering, etc. The same thing that a good recording engineer would do. Many of us do not have the experience nor budget for various mics and cabs to accomplish as good a result.

This is why a good plugin will sound better than what you can get DI'd straight from the amp.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

I have a B15 plugin, and I have a real B15. To be honest, the plug-in gets me >90% in the ballpark of the real deal 1965 B-15N.

And when you’re recording bass, much of the audible difference between the real McCoy and the plug-in gets obliterated by the other instruments in the mix.

the one instance where the real amp is preferable to a plug-in is probably lead guitar. Definitely want that real tube amplifier sound… and the player definitely wants to FEEL the amp inspiration as he/she is tracking.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Thought it would be great to hear from others who have done this.

For example, I have found a .vst plugin for Bassdude to be better than what I can get direct from my Rumble 100. Same with a B15 plugin compared to my PF-20T amp direct.

I haven't compared using mic'd cabs but, the plugins have different cabs. Does that make a great difference?

What has been your experience?

Amplitube's V4-b sounds almost exactly like my real v4-B. Except that the controls and dynamics don't function like the real world amp does. As in, it doesn't play the same, but it sounds almost exact.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Amplitube's V4-b sounds almost exactly like my real v4-B. Except that the controls and dynamics don't function like the real world amp does. As in, it doesn't play the same, but it sounds almost exact.

That’s the point — the plug-ins are right there sound wise, but of course they don’t ‘feel’ the same when playing through the plug-in versus a real amp.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

That’s the point — the plug-ins are right there sound wise, but of course they don’t ‘feel’ the same when playing through the plug-in versus a real amp.

Exactly. It's like, even though the inherent tone is there, and the eq points are the same, they just don't react like the real thing.

Put another way, you can't set it up the same way as your amp. It doesn't do what your amp does. It's not a circuit of components reacting to you and eachother. It just sounds like your amp. You have to play with it for a good while to figure it out. But you can get very similar tones from it with trial and error.

And also, not coming from the live cab, it will never sound like your live rig does. But, it will sound almost like your rig mic'd with a specific microphone, in a specific placement, in a specific room setting. Good or bad.

 

[Fynn]

I found that generally plugins require some more expertise. To get a plugin sounding good, you need to know how it reacts to your input, and you need to know how to work these virtual parameters. That can be difficult for people who are new to that, but it might also not be. An amp plugin will usually have some sort of cab IR (impulse response (it simulates a cabinet)), while the DI from an amp usually is just the dry sound you get out of the preamp.
That's why a DI out will often sound very transparent and maybe sometimes even a bit harsh. The speaker cabinet removes a lot of that harshness, and a mic'd cab will generally give you more lows, if you close mic it correctly.

The ideal way to go when recording will always be to just take the dry signal from your bass, and then later reamp it if you feel like it. Or simply split the signal, record one signal through an amp and the other direct into your computer. Choices are always better, than no choices (unless you have too many choices, but too many would probably be hundreds and not three).

 

[mmon77]

The ideal way to go when recording will always be to just take the dry signal from your bass, and then later reamp it if you feel like it. Or simply split the signal, record one signal through an amp and the other direct into your computer.

Honestly, this is the coolest thing about modern technology. You have virtually unlimited tracks available, so you can record dry and reamp or throw on plugins with as many different options as you want.

It can be overwhelming in a way, but the fact that I can reproduce an instrument playing through amps and cabs that I could never even dream to own is pretty darn cool if you ask me.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Honestly, this is the coolest thing about modern technology. You have virtually unlimited tracks available, so you can record dry and reamp or throw on plugins with as many different options as you want.

It can be overwhelming in a way, but the fact that I can reproduce an instrument playing through amps and cabs that I could never even dream to own is pretty darn cool if you ask me.

I run a plug in but if I'm in a hurry to capture an idea, I plug in and play and ramp later, if I feel the need.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Honestly, this is the coolest thing about modern technology. You have virtually unlimited tracks available, so you can record dry and reamp or throw on plugins with as many different options as you want.

It can be overwhelming in a way, but the fact that I can reproduce an instrument playing through amps and cabs that I could never even dream to own is pretty darn cool if you ask me.

A strong argument can be made that the unlimited tracks available can also be a limitation. Often great creative innovation arises out of technological (or financial) limitation.