Wow. How do you get your pants on over those huge balls of yours?
What were you saying earlier about straw man arguments?
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Compression in Monitors?
- Thread starter agreatheight
- Start date
Wow. How do you get your pants on over those huge balls of yours?
What were you saying earlier about straw man arguments?
It helps me hit the pitch better. I have no idea why, it just does. A little comfort verb also helps with pitch.
Now that you vocalists have had your says about effects, how about we get back to compression,
I'm interested in a limiting compression designed to stop more amateur vocalists with poor mic technique from clipping or complaining their mic isn't hot enough.
I'm interested in a limiting compression designed to stop more amateur vocalists with poor mic technique from clipping or complaining their mic isn't hot enough.
I've made any point I intend to make. If you choose to NOT learn from another point of view, feel free.
Sometimes, people on the internet argue just for the sake of arguing. Meanwhile, sound people all across the bar scene are ruining singers' performances based on "knowing" something, even though at the PRO level, people suddenly don't "know" that very thing.
If a singer is able to hit big notes, they ARE a singer, whether you bozos say they are or not. They can do something you never will be able to.
But none of you have shown yourself qualified to define who IS and who ISN'T a "real" singer.
Sometimes, people on the internet argue just for the sake of arguing. Meanwhile, sound people all across the bar scene are ruining singers' performances based on "knowing" something, even though at the PRO level, people suddenly don't "know" that very thing.
If a singer is able to hit big notes, they ARE a singer, whether you bozos say they are or not. They can do something you never will be able to.
But none of you have shown yourself qualified to define who IS and who ISN'T a "real" singer.
I'm a real singer. Really. I prefer no effects in the monitors. I like hearing exactly what is coming out of my mouth. That's the way I am comfortable.
i'll fight all of you about compression, but i don't see the harm in a little effects in the monitors.
+1 on the positive "singing in the shower" effect of a little slapback in there, it may even help with pitch recognition to hear a little delay sprinkled in there.
+1 on the positive "singing in the shower" effect of a little slapback in there, it may even help with pitch recognition to hear a little delay sprinkled in there.
Seems like you and I are the only ones left in this debacle who have any interest in compression. Perhaps we should start another thread.
Somebody is really butthurt about this.
It's a real-life problem, and I am much more butthurt about it in real life than I am on this forum.
I doubt any of you will be running sound for us.
I am so good, and so professional, that I can sing when I can't even HEAR my monitors, and remember not to oversing, and keep the pitch.
No singer should have to go through that, but I can do it.
I won't be the least bit happy, should it happen, however.
All my anger about the issue is on behalf of another singer, who gets ignored by sound people all the time, and account of not belonging to an exclusive club you and I were born to.
I couldn't give a ff what anyone has in their monitors so long as it isn't muddying up the foh. I expect pro soundmen feel the same way.
I've been meaning to reply to you on this but have been caught up in work madness and haven't been able to do it so far.
There isn't really much wrong with the way you're doing it assuming that the comps are only kicking in on really loud bits (i.e high threshold). The issues creep in when the comps are active most of the time, and/or the ratio is getting up there. Also assuming that this approach serves your FOH needs as well.
What I suggested in my earlier post was to remove per channel compression for monitors to preserve the singer's full dynamic range on stage but to add limiting further down the chain to protect the drivers in the wedges. In that instance, you'd want to set the comp up with a high ratio (20:1 or more) and set the threshold so that it kicks in right at or just before the speaker's maximum safe SPL. If your power amp is well matched you can set the limiter up to kick in right below the amp's clip point. So until you're getting into the physical limits of the monitors, there is no compression active. Does this make sense?
If you're using (most) powered speakers or any kind of processed system you probably already have that protection.
As for effects in monitors, there aren't really any hard and fast rules but in general they aren't particularly desirable for most singers and in my experience, most seasoned vocalists do not want them in their monitors (we're assuming wedges here, IEMs are a different story) unless in an extremely dry and controlled environment. Once again, in my experience it's usually the greener singers that want effects in their wedges and in my opinion, that's actually detrimental to best performance, though they may not think that.
Trying to make monitors sound like the FOH is very often an exercise in frustration and typically results in the musicians not hearing themselves as well as they could if the monitors were set up differently. It's a big mistake that green (and sometimes experienced) musicians and monitor engineers often make along with checking monitors without the FOH on. Those wedges that sound nice and smooth in isolation are going to disappear once the FOH kicks in.
All that said, there are always exceptions to every rule and as a sound engineer, I don't consider it my place to dictate how someone's monitor mix sounds and I will do whatever is necessary to make the musicians comfortable. I'm not shy to offer a bit of advice, though and there have been lots of situations over the years where my suggestion to EQ a monitor mix a bit shy of low end and a bit strident in the upper mids, and to dump the effects have resulted in singers with reputations of being hard to mix monitors for being very happy with theirs when set up that way. And some where that approach did not work too.
Thank you, sir.
My band uses a lot dynamics from whisper soft to full-tilt, so the thresholds and ratios are usually set low at both the channel and final output stages. This seems to work well for us...as long as the person at the board keeps his hands on the faders.
I have limiters set at (what I believe to be) appropriate points just before the crossovers and in the sub amp.
My band uses a lot dynamics from whisper soft to full-tilt, so the thresholds and ratios are usually set low at both the channel and final output stages. This seems to work well for us...as long as the person at the board keeps his hands on the faders.
I have limiters set at (what I believe to be) appropriate points just before the crossovers and in the sub amp.
That sounds like the antithesis of running comp as a limiter on a vocal. Very confusing. Low threshold with low ratio squishes the dynamic range of the signal, which everyone else is dead against.
I think he meant high threshold, low ratio there. That's what he said in his earlier post so I assume that's just a typo.
Yep. Meant to type high threshold.
Sorry for the confusion. I really shouldn't post on websites while I'm being distracted by work.
Sorry for the confusion. I really shouldn't post on websites while I'm being distracted by work.
You've got it backwards. You really shouldn't be distracted by work while posting on [DEL]websites[/DEL] Talkbass!
This statement depends entirely on the skill of the sound engineer. Creating feedback is quite easy.
This will depend on where the "tap off" point for your monitor sends are on your console. If the signal going to the monitors comes before the insert point on the channel, then you can compress all you want and it won't change what they hear in the monitors. If the tap off point is after the insert, then any compression will be heard in the monitors.
If you want compression but don't want it in the monitors you can insert it onto a sub-group and assign all the vocals to that group.
Wow...had to go look at the manual on this one. In my case the insert is just before the EQ section. Further reading shows the insert "send" tap is pre-EQ and pre-fader. I use Aux's 1 & 2 for monitors (assigned as pre-fader) so I'll assume that the monitor channels will carry the compression.
I've seen several references over the years addressing the sub-group route as being the best option. This is, of course, with regards to my older Soundcraft analog board. The newer digital gear is a whole different animal!
Riis
