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Compressor Question

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#41
taurus1 said:
I really have to ask why you're even here?
clearly it's not to open your mind up and possibly learn something.
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I do have an interest in live sound. When I saw your ridiculous statement, I had to write something, in case some budding sound engineer "learned something", committed it to memory, and used it, thinking he found good information. :scowl:

Look, I really don't care who you learned this "trick" from or how long he's been doing it. It's a stupid way to go about things. Humble up. Accept that you're wrong, and learn another way to handle the situation.

Take care.
 
#42
gearhead1972 said:
Thanks for the hijack, anyway the compressor on the vocal group worked wonderfully yesterday with a number of lead singers. And to answer the original question a tiny bit of compression on the effects return after the effects worked well also...
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I apologize for my part in the diversion. I thought this was going to remain a discussion about gear and live sound engineering techniques.
 
#43
gearhead1972 said:
Either way the extra compo channel is there, and I would rather have peace of mind that the effects channel is also protected from spikes.
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if your effects return channel is anywhere close to having the remotest issue with "spikes" then the effects are wildly too loud.

comp them if you like the sound, sure, but don't give a second thought to worrying about volume spikes on a little bit of echo behind the vocals.
 
#44
walterw said:
if your effects return channel is anywhere close to having the remotest issue with "spikes" then the effects are wildly too loud.

comp them if you like the sound, sure, but don't give a second thought to worrying about volume spikes on a little bit of echo behind the vocals.
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Nah they aren't at all loud. I have it so the nominal light on the ART Multiverb lights, never hits the peak light. Then the return is no where near unity gain. Coming up to about 3-6 db before unity on the PFL meter. Like I said, the compressor channel it there anyway. I got it reducing gain about 1db on peaks. The effects sound just right, just transparent. Enough for people to hear great vocals, but say hey something is missing if I were to turn them off.
 
#45
In regards to "tricking" the singer into singing louder by cutting back on the monitors:

I've actually run into quite a few engineers that do this, especially with singers that use in-ear monitoring. See, many singers who use in-ears turn up, and then, because they hear their voices directly and cleanly, they back off the mic out of human instinct...because in their mind, they're "loud enough," not understanding that they're wrecking the sound out front.

In re. Wedges: I've done the "back off trick" with some singers who wanted monitor levels so hot the speaker was literally compressing and distorting. When I dialed back just a notch, the compression went away and the singer admitted that he heard himself a lot better, with less strain.

HOWEVER...you must proceed with caution. Before doing something like this, I talk to the singer first. Some singers have the technique necessary to adjust - to push a teensy bit more air well within their safe limits. Some, however, don't.
 
#46
Stone Soup said:
Look, I really don't care who you learned this "trick" from or how long he's been doing it. It's a stupid way to go about things. Humble up. Accept that you're wrong, and learn another way to handle the situation.

Take care.
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It's not stupid - in fact, it's quite common among many pro monitor engineers. The trick is to pull back ONLY slightly, like -3dB. It should not be consciously noticeable. Also, care should be taken to make sure there is plenty of headroom in the signal path.
 
#47
AndyLES said:
In regards to "tricking" the singer into singing louder by cutting back on the monitors:

I've actually run into quite a few engineers that do this, especially with singers that use in-ear monitoring. See, many singers who use in-ears turn up, and then, because they hear their voices directly and cleanly, they back off the mic out of human instinct...because in their mind, they're "loud enough," not understanding that they're wrecking the sound out front.

In re. Wedges: I've done the "back off trick" with some singers who wanted monitor levels so hot the speaker was literally compressing and distorting. When I dialed back just a notch, the compression went away and the singer admitted that he heard himself a lot better, with less strain.

HOWEVER...you must proceed with caution. Before doing something like this, I talk to the singer first. Some singers have the technique necessary to adjust - to push a teensy bit more air well within their safe limits. Some, however, don't.
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yep, a lot of FOH guys notice that problem with IEMs, the singers hear themselves so much louder, they back off the mic, project less, everything changes.

AndyLES said:
It's not stupid - in fact, it's quite common among many pro monitor engineers. The trick is to pull back ONLY slightly, like -3dB. It should not be consciously noticeable. Also, care should be taken to make sure there is plenty of headroom in the signal path.
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+1 again, great to know there are some actual pros here.
 
#48
taurus1 said:
yep, a lot of FOH guys notice that problem with IEMs, the singers hear themselves so much louder, they back off the mic, project less, everything changes.



+1 again, great to know there are some actual pros here.
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Just thought I'd point out that you asked for someone else's experience/credentials, but still haven't posted yours...


- georgestrings
 
#49
AndyLES said:
It's not stupid - in fact, it's quite common among many pro monitor engineers. The trick is to pull back ONLY slightly, like -3dB. It should not be consciously noticeable. Also, care should be taken to make sure there is plenty of headroom in the signal path.
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Pulling back slightly, on a person who might have a projection issue due to allergies, a cold, overuse, or for whatever reason, is stupid. Again, I don't care who does it or who you learned it from. It's stupid. It can injure a singer. 3dB is a considerable change.

taurus1, put a sock in it.
 
#51
Stone Soup said:
Pulling back slightly, on a person who might have a projection issue due to allergies, a cold, overuse, or for whatever reason, is stupid. Again, I don't care who does it or who you learned it from. It's stupid. It can injure a singer. 3dB is a considerable change.

taurus1, put a sock in it.
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Recall, though, that I said SPEAK TO THE SINGER FIRST; obviously, if they have projection issues because of strain, allergies, you don't do this. But if they don't, and hot monitors are causing them to pull back from the mic, then you can.

You're entitled to your opinion (as am I, and Taurus, regardless of how you'd like to shout us down). I am willing to bet, though, that some engineer, somewhere, probably did this to you...and you didn't even realize it. THAT'S how common this "trick" is.

Anyhow, I'm pulling out of the thread. Last word is yours.
 
#52
AndyLES said:
I am willing to bet, though, that some engineer, somewhere, probably did this to you...and you didn't even realize it. THAT'S how common this "trick" is.
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When I was very young, an engineer took the time to ask me to step to the mic like I was singing. He then explained to me where, relative to the microphone, I should be so I would be heard. This is the smart way to go about things.

Tell me what you do with a singer whose style is a breathy falsetto, and sometimes near a whisper.

**and the highjack continues...
 
#54
Stone Soup said:
Pulling back slightly, on a person who might have a projection issue due to allergies, a cold, overuse, or for whatever reason, is stupid. Again, I don't care who does it or who you learned it from. It's stupid. It can injure a singer. 3dB is a considerable change.

taurus1, put a sock in it.
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georgestrings said:
Was thinking the same thing...


- georgestrings
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3dB is the smallest perceivable difference to the human ear, lol, lol, lol
 
#60
taurus1 said:
please, this is embarrassing
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No, I think you're talking out your butt. You claim to make an 'inaudible 3dB change to help the singer'. I want to know where your measurement is coming from. How do you know the the adjustment is 3dB? Or are you just throwing out numbers?

I'm not embarrassed, at all. Teach me something, swami.

P.S. I can hear a 3dB change.
 
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