Double Bass Compressor Recommendations for Upright Bass

[Paddy Morris]

I stumbled across this thread and wondered if anyone had any advice. I play vintage and slap, and after a great deal of pain and expense, I have finally arrived at an amplified upright bass sound I'm pretty happy with. Not many feedback issues, it sounds like my upright, nice attack on the front the pluck and not too much sustain.

But the transients seem to be too much for my rigs. The small Genzler 350 frequently cuts-out into protection mode for a second or so on a loud pluck. With the larger Genzler 800, it appears that I may have now damaged the cross-over in my Barefaced cab because the transients are too big.

What I need is a peak limiter that will catch the transients before they do any damage, but have absolutely no audible effect on any other aspect of the sound. I realise that's probably an impossible ask, but I'm asking any of the compressor users in this thread if they have ever found such a device?

I currently have the Keeley Compressor Pro, which is very transparent and flexible. But as soon as I reduce the attack time to the point where it is protecting my amps and cabs, it starts to ruin the audible attack of the note. If I back the attack time off to where the sound is unaffected, the amp starts to go into protection mode on peaks again. And just to add, this is happening at pretty modest volume levels, not crazy-loud gig level.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

I stumbled across this thread and wondered if anyone had any advice. I play vintage and slap, and after a great deal of pain and expense, I have finally arrived at an amplified upright bass sound I'm pretty happy with. Not many feedback issues, it sounds like my upright, nice attack on the front the pluck and not too much sustain.

But the transients seem to be too much for my rigs. The small Genzler 350 frequently cuts-out into protection mode for a second or so on a loud pluck. With the larger Genzler 800, it appears that I may have now damaged the cross-over in my Barefaced cab because the transients are too big.

What I need is a peak limiter that will catch the transients before they do any damage, but have absolutely no audible effect on any other aspect of the sound. I realise that's probably an impossible ask, but I'm asking any of the compressor users in this thread if they have ever found such a device?

I currently have the Keeley Compressor Pro, which is very transparent and flexible. But as soon as I reduce the attack time to the point where it is protecting my amps and cabs, it starts to ruin the audible attack of the note. If I back the attack time off to where the sound is unaffected, the amp starts to go into protection mode on peaks again. And just to add, this is happening at pretty modest volume levels, not crazy-loud gig level.

Any advice would be appreciated.

It could be that it is some kind of low end signal, that causes the clipping. In that case a high pass filter could help. Just an idea.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

@Paddy Morris when you say the amp “cuts out into protection mode on a loud pluck”, does the clip light on the input gain come on? If so, the problem is a simple matter of gain staging and the solution is easy - just back off on the input gain and raise the master.

If not, then as @Povl Carstensen says, a HPF in the chain would be a good thing to try since the problem might be the amp struggling to produce subsonic frequencies. It would also be helpful to know what pickup you are using, as some pickups put out a lot of low end signal that isn’t naturally a part of the acoustic sound of the bass, and finding a way to roll this excess off is a common part of the double bass amplification learning curve.

I haven’t had much luck with compressors other than one instance - the built in limiter on the older PJB amps that I use and love. Someone more technically savvy than me can explain how they work and how limiting is a function of compression involving certain settings, but all I know is that the circuit that PJB used in those amps is very transparent, involves only one knob, and also includes a really helpful light to show when it is kicking in, which further helps with setting the input gain to an appropriate level.

 

[Swizzledoop]

Definitely try the HPF first (Fdecks are great)

As far as compression goes, I’ve had good results with a Cali76 Compact Bass playing loud bluegrass.The dry and HPF knobs help give a natural response with an extra pop and presence to the notes.

 

[Wasnex]

But the transients seem to be too much for my rigs.

Either accept the volume limitations rig or build a bigger rig. Compression and limiting can only do so much before they start audibly changing the attack and decay characteristics of your sound.

One thing to consider is the frequency range where the overload is occurring. This relates to the frequency response contour you are using. For example if you boost lows below the cutoff of a ported cab, then the cab will quickly run out of headroom. This is because the cab is inefficient below it's intended pass band and also because the power rating below cut off can be surprisingly low. This where a properly set up high pass filter can be very helpful

The MG350 combo is a nice little rig, but it's only 175W with single 10-2 Bass Array. The sensitivity rating of the 10-2 is 97dB 1W/1m. With 175W calculated SPL is 119.4dB, which is not very much headroom for slap bass. If you are using a 4 ohm cab the MG350 can make up to 350W.

The MG800 is rated 400W at 8 ohms and 800W at 4 ohms or 2.67ohms. For max power the speaker load must be 4 or 2.67 ohms. To take advantage of the 800W the cab must handle 800W.

You don't mention which BF cab you are using.

If you are playing slap, it makes me suspect you are using a clicky. Some people run the clicky super loud, which can produce huge transients in the frequency range related to slapping the strings against the finger board.. These transients can overload preamps and can also put mids drivers, tweeters, and possibly crossovers at risk. In multi-way cab, usually the mid and high range drivers handle significantly less power than the woofers. The cab's power ratings are based on frequency power distribution of regular bass, which has much less HF content than slap bass.

 

[crd]

But the transients seem to be too much for my rigs. The small Genzler 350 frequently cuts-out into protection mode for a second or so on a loud pluck. With the larger Genzler 800, it appears that I may have now damaged the cross-over in my Barefaced cab because the transients are too big.

What Barefaced cab are you using? I could hit my BB3 with a sledge hammer and it would be okay. If it's one of the 12" Barefaced cabs I think they are built to take just about anything.

I have no had any luck with any low wattage solution for upright. Overkill specs always seem to work best. It takes a lot of wattage to reproduce the fundamental of the low notes.

 

[Paddy Morris]

Thanks for all the helpful responses.

Yes, the cab is a BB3, and it looks like the crossover has packed up. It might not have been damaged by the slap transients, of course. But that's definitely what's upsetting the Genzlers.

Yes I use an HPF. I couldn't begin to gig without one. And yes, I think the clicky is the issue. I either use none at all, or I just tickle the tiniest bit of clicky in. But that does seem to get where the issue is.

I've just been looking at this new PJB split band compressor, the X2C, and I'm wondering whether it might be worth a try.

 

[Wasnex]

And yes, I think the clicky is the issue...I've just been looking at this new PJB split band compressor, the X2C, and I'm wondering whether it might be worth a try.

Using multi-band compression or possibly just limiting the clicky is worth trying. However, if the clicky requires more volume than the Mids or Tweeter can produce, compression and limiting are not the solution.

Another idea would be to use a separate clicky amp. I.E. try the clicky into something like a guitar cab. Something that is super efficient and can take a pounding in the clicky range...Maybe you could borrow something to give it a try.

 

[Paddy Morris]

Interesting idea.

 

[MynameisMe]

What I need is a peak limiter

Here's a nice one for $ 65.00. If you're in the US.
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/boss-limiter-enhancer-lmb-3.1651449/