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Double Bass Compressor Recommendations for Upright Bass
- Thread starter flyingwalrus
- Start date
Yeah, I bought it because it looked amazing and was recommended to me by several folks who know their business. Problem was, with the Mouse I discovered I was looking for more air, not less, and a compressor is not the way to get that. For a boost/cut-through pedal, though, it may be just the thing. Will see when time allows.
just making a quick post to contribute to the public knowledge base as a fyi for anyone who cares.
i bought one of these Keeley Compressor Pro - Professional studio guitar pedal
for bass guitar and decided to try it with my upright. i use the auto switch on, so essentially its exactly like the keeley bassist compressor except with led level lights which help me out a great deal when setting this thing up. it works quite well on upright bass in auto mode. so well im going to use it on a my next gigs, but here at home it sounds very nice, and you can have a lot more options of how to set it if you turn auto mode off, but im not going to. part of the charm of the thing is that you just plug into it and play. just adjust the ratio and threshold and you're done. sounds very nice and natural... seems to be a really high quality unit that works for upright...
I thought I'd bump this thread as I've been thinking about popping for a new compressor / limiter. (I did like the Keeley Bassist and probably should've kept it - but no biggie.)
Looking to use it with my new-to-me passive Fender P & GK rig - plus as a groovy front end for my Logic DAW. I also want something with the proper input impedance for a piezo (Full Circle) on upright on certain gigs.
Thinking about the Cali76 compact bass, Darkglass symmetry, or the FEA de-cl. All these units have glowing reviews for clean operation plus added "warmth" for a bit of tube-like sound.
I wish there was a store nearby where all these could be compared - but I guess that's what the TB classifieds are for!
Looking to use it with my new-to-me passive Fender P & GK rig - plus as a groovy front end for my Logic DAW. I also want something with the proper input impedance for a piezo (Full Circle) on upright on certain gigs.
Thinking about the Cali76 compact bass, Darkglass symmetry, or the FEA de-cl. All these units have glowing reviews for clean operation plus added "warmth" for a bit of tube-like sound.
I wish there was a store nearby where all these could be compared - but I guess that's what the TB classifieds are for!
just an fyi, im still using the keeley pro and liking it. i use my preamp in front of it for impedance and eq.
I just scored a clean Wampler Ego for a good price on CL. It sounds amazing on my passive Fender Precision.
For the upright it adds some warmth and has tons of boost as well. It also does a nice job leveling out the “almost always louder D string” and it really brings out harmonics. For jazz pizz it remains clean & fairly transparent while comfortably limiting slaps on the occasional boom-thwacka 2-feel thing.
Granted - I’m still learning how to use the darn thing and therefore keeping the settings on the lower / conservative side until I figure out what everything does.
For the upright it adds some warmth and has tons of boost as well. It also does a nice job leveling out the “almost always louder D string” and it really brings out harmonics. For jazz pizz it remains clean & fairly transparent while comfortably limiting slaps on the occasional boom-thwacka 2-feel thing.
Granted - I’m still learning how to use the darn thing and therefore keeping the settings on the lower / conservative side until I figure out what everything does.
If a compressor is "bad" for acoustic bass, why does an acoustically-focused company like Phil Jones make an amp with a compressor? I've got a Flightcase BG-150 coming in today for acoustic bass guitar and it has a compressor. I'll mess with it but not sure what to shoot for with that feature.
The flightcase series have built in limiters on them to help protect the speakers. These limiters do a brilliant job. I got a Bass Buddy not too long ago, and found that it has a compressor instead of a limiter. I found the compressor completely useless both for BG and DB. As always, EEMMV
Reading the manual, that feature knob apparently is a compressor (fixed at 3:1 ratio) and a limiter. It says "Although a limiter is not essential to bass amplification, it can be a useful tool in smoothing out the character of your instrument or playing style." Not sure what that means but I'll try some knob twisting to find out.
To use the limiting function, set the volume so that the blue light only comes on briefly during the loudest, most aggressive attacks. It does a great job of passing everything else through unchanged but keeps you from blowing your speakers or farting them out when you really dig in. I usually don't like effects for DB, but this is more of a "only kicks in when needed" circuit, and I honestly never notice it's on except that I've never blown a speaker.
I've never understood the general DB disdain for compression. I find compression very useful on DB, and on any instrument, find that an audible, "effect" level of compression to be inherently too much compression. As a tool for evening out electronic abnormalities that go with trying to reproduce the bass' natural acoustic sound (specifically between strings) I find compression to be invaluable. It should go without saying that most limiting and compressing should be done by the fingers, on EB or DB, but there is nothing worse than feeling stuck on the higher strings during a ballad, or stuck on the E string when thrashing up rhythm changes when you really want to be higher on the instrument, where acoustically the instrument would actually cut through the band better (on most basses); just generally pigeonholed to any range of the instrument based on the dynamic of the moment... Yes I know about HPFs, but HPF and subtle compression, now that will get you somewhere. I find compressors with a blend like the Seymour Duncan really useful in this regard; compression set fairly low and blend all or most of the way up to preserve the uncompressed signal.
Like anything, it depends on the sound you want. Often people use upright because they specifically want the instrument's percussive, thumpy attack and also it's a short decay. IMHO compression tends to reduce dynamic range and add sustain, so it may go against an individual's tone goals.
If the sound of your upright is uneven, I suggest using a utility EQ rather than compression. Something like an Empress ParaEQ should be helpful. In the past I have use fully parametric EQs and also 31 band graphics. The Empress appears to be a pretty decent compromise in a pedal format. With proper EQ the bass sounds more natural and the attack and decay characteristics are not modified with compression.
I am not fundamentally opposed to using compression on upright, but it is probably not something I would use on stage unless my goal was to make the instrument sound more like an EUB. If I did use compression, it would probably be very light. Unfortunately I would expect significant compression to lead to other problems related to the feedback loop between the amp and the bass. Why? A compressor increases gain between transients. This extra gain can cause feedback and also uneven frequency response if the bass is already on the edge. The more you need to amplify the bass, the more these things tend to be a problem.
Compression is something I do use as an audio tech to get the bass to lay just right in the house mix. But I don't think I have ever done this with upright.
I'm still using my keeley pro for upright bass. It's part of my rig now. I use a high-pass filter also but I think the under the bridge foot realist pickup still delivers a massive transient that's out of proportion with the rest of the note so I feel like the compressor helps with that. you definitely can't tell that it's on if you're listening to it, it just sounds like a normal bass but it smooths out the playing a lot , but there's still plenty of front end to the note. I recently acquired the API transformer preamp and it also is amazing and the compressor in there is great and I think the transformer also smooths things out a little bit. I run a hpf in front of that as well. I have a mark bass compressor that I love for electric bass but it's too complicated for upright. I like the one or two knob solutions. You put it in a sweet spot and forget it.
^^^The Keeley is a nice unit, and IME the most transparent compressor in pedal format that I have found.
I am rather enjoying the built-in compressor effect in my Quilter Bass Block. As you increase gain, it kicks in gradually. You can then adjust volume with the master control. The effect is a meatier, more full sound. Too much, and you lose definition of the sound.
I experience the same issue with my NS Design electric upright. There is a simple cure to that: switchable clean boost. It may take the form of separate pedal (e.g. TC El. Spark mini costs about 40 euros here in Europe). Or it may take the form of a dediceted boost switch on (preamp) pedal. Fishman Platinum Pro features such a switch as does Broughton Messenger preamp which I own and use. IME, it takes 5-10 db increase to balance arco and pizzicato.
Currently, I don't use compressor with my NS Design electric upright as I try to make it sound acoustic with my current projects.
I would likely use a compressor if I wanted to make it sound electric.
I would likely use a compressor if I wanted to make it sound electric.
But I think you take the pickup out of the equation. When you add a pickup to your upright the sound will be different than your acoustic sound anyway. I agree that it is the best to be able to control the dynamics with your hands but those dynamics won’t get lost when you use compression properly.
What I do is with EQ is somewhat inline with what the Audio Sprockets ToneDexter aims to do. Essentially, I treat the bass, pickup, and amp as a system and try to EQ so that it sounds more like a mic'ed bass than a bass with a pickup.
The way I tune a bass and amp is the same way I tune a PA system for feedback. Essentially I turn up the gain and cut the frequencies that are most prone to feeding back. I will also dip frequencies associated with any hot spots on the bass that want to jump out. For example if the sound from the amp is pumping the strings, so they want to ring endlessly in certain ranges instead of decaying normally. By cutting the frequencies that want to resonate and/or feedback, you make the response of the entire system more linear and authentic. Without the EQ, the system sounds unnatural because the balance between the fundamental and overtones is not correct. By turning up the system to the point of feedback you identify and then eliminate the worst peaks in the frequency response, so the balance between the fundamental and overtones is restored to some degree.
This is my theory and opinion which you are free to disregard, but I suggest you try ringing out a bass with a 31 band EQ sometime to see how much more natural you can make it sound. If you know an audio tech who knows how to ring out a PA for feedback, get them to help you as it takes a bit of experience to develop the proper intuition and skill.
The way I do it is to increase gain until feedback occurs. Cut the first frequency. Next start at the bottom and boost two adjacent bands a time and evaluate how prone they are to feedback. You will not make a decision just yet. Move up one slider and boost two adjacent bands. After you have done the first three bands, you can decide if you need to make a cut. Then move on to the next two bands and continue the process. Go back and fourth between the bands as needed.
If you only cut one band you can make a fairly deep cut. But if you need to adjust several adjacent bands use a shallower cut. Essentially the wider the cut, the less you cut.
After you have run through all of the frequency bands. Increase the gain again to check for head. Then reduce the level to your normal playing volume. If you have done the job right the sound will be more clear, pure, and even.
Overall you can typically cut 4-5 major feedback nodes (notch filtering), and do a bit of gentle tone shaping. However, if you cut too much, it will gut the sound, so you may have to start over.
Of course this is just a simplified description of a process that is part art and part science. If you have some natural ability you will learn various tricks with time and experience.
If you like to use compression with upright, I am okay with it; but it's not generally something I would reach for on stage. I don't even typically use compression live with bass guitar on stage. I am certain the audio techs I worked with compressed my bass guitar channel for the house mix. I can't say for certain about my upright channel.
