Double Bass Compressor Recommendations for Upright Bass

[pnchad]

Hi flyingwalrus,

Speaking for only myself, "compression" of my doublebass's sound is about the last thing I'd ever want. I'm always attempting, (especially when amplifying), to project the inherent "thump" of the bass, not mask, reduce or eliminate it with "compression".
Are you experiencing hot/dead spots in your amplified sound? Are those hot/dead spots present in your acoustic (non-amplified) sound?
Others may have a different view.
Thanks.

I'm also in this camp but I guess it depends on the style of music and sound you want to achieve.

I'm always trying to get a 'natural' open organic tone so compression would just squash that even just a touch

I can see a recording application where the bass signal is too wide but that can be added in post where you can really hear what's happening

 

[Timmy-Watts]

I imagine it would be clumsy to grab the bow and then adjust the volume if you're doing quick switches between arco and pizz.

I usually put my FDeck HPF series 2 (my favorite of them all) in my bow quiver. Easy to give volume tweaks. When I need to adjust volume and tone on the fly (like switching to arco) I use a MXR 10-band EQ for "boost." I find that the boost should only be of certain frequencies on an amplified upright. So I boost gain, boost a little mids, roll off a little bass. One kick of a pedal=your boost. As far as compression, I like what a properly set level on the compressor of a Fishman Platinum Pro does. It retains the thump and evens out lines for when it's a pop acoustic gig (as opposed to a jazz gig). And it usually does ok at big band gigs, but I don't like being married to the coloring of that unit. If there were a pedal out there with only that compressor circuit I would buy one. Straight ahead small jazz group gigs-f-Deck only into my amp. About the F-Deck---Get one. Trust me. I have owned every preamp under the sun. That one is a mainstay. It has he magic.

 

[bigshiny]

The only time I have ever used any compression live on UB it was for my IEM's. And that was only because I was required to slap on a lot of the material. Used it more limiting so I didn't blow out my ears. To me , compression is in your fingers. But that's just my .02

 

[Jason Hollar]

I just picked up a Keeley Bassist (the newer 3 band model) for my electric rig and decided to try it on the upright. The pedal has a 1 MegOhm input (I think) so it's a good match for my piezo pup. I have the effect at a very conservative setting 2:1 ratio and the threshold just picking up the hottest notes. There's a ton of gain if you need it - but I'm just leaving it at unity for now.

Overall, it seems to roll off the super low end and super high end and squishes it all back into a more focused / fatter sound. It's super clean, and my mark bass 1x12 combo seems to be a good match. It does add a little sustain which is nice for soloing and harmonics and stuff. Overall, it's a subtle, pleasing sound to me - and seems to warm up the piezo tone somewhat.

 

[drurb]

I just picked up a Keeley Bassist (the newer 3 band model) for my electric rig and decided to try it on the upright. The pedal has a 1 MegOhm input (I think) so it's a good match for my piezo pup. I have the effect at a very conservative setting 2:1 ratio and the threshold just picking up the hottest notes. There's a ton of gain if you need it - but I'm just leaving it at unity for now.

Overall, it seems to roll off the super low end and super high end and squishes it all back into a more focused / fatter sound. It's super clean, and my mark bass 1x12 combo seems to be a good match. It does add a little sustain which is nice for soloing and harmonics and stuff. Overall, it's a subtle, pleasing sound to me - and seems to warm up the piezo tone somewhat.

Well, if you like it, then that's what counts. If the compressor really targets selected parts of the spectrum, then I think I'd find it even more objectionable than I usually find a compressor.

 

[cacophonic]

Hello all,

A quick question for the assembled expertise on this forum; has anyone got a recommendation for a compressor pedal to use with my upright?

For specifics, I play a Shen SB-80 plywood bass with a Realist pickup through an MXR M81 bass preamp DI straight into the PA. I mostly play in a rock/bluegrass band but do occasional church stuff, backing up singer-songwriters and so on. In my other musical life, my electric bass rig uses extremely heavy compression, almost as an effect, and for the upright I'd like something to even out the amplitude a bit.

In addition I'd like something which has battery power - I use a JoeMeek Floor Q with bass guitar and it's absolutely wonderful but only runs on electric power and you don't get that with a lot of the venues I play. I did think about getting a Fishman Platinum which contains everything I need, but I've heard very bad things about Fishman build quality and it doesn't have phantom power, which is really helpful if everything's in one package.

Anyway, if anyone's got any experience with pedal compressors processing uprights I'd value some help.

Many thanks in advance,

Ian

Two Ton Twig - New Album 1st April 2015...

If any thread here on the db side needs killin', this be the one. And since I'm probably leading the league in threadkill posts on the db side of TB, who better to do the dirty work?

Disclaimer-- Ian, there is no "expertise," assembled or otherwise, to be found in this post. Just to get that out of the way.

Bold statement-- If a feller wanted to make his upright bass sound like a cheap bass guitar, well shucks all he oughta do is get hisself wunna them compressor gizmos, crank it up, and squash every last little bit of life right out of his signal boy howdy amen. 'Course, you don't gotta squeeze that hard, but every little bit of compression you use gives you that much less upright and that much more bass guitar.

Personal opinion-- In general, compression is overrated, overused, and over-misunderstood. With particular respect to double bass, it should be avoided when possible and used carefully and expertly only if necessary to fix a particular, specifc problem.

Personal experience-- That said, I have yes indeedy used a compressor, on stage, to address a particular specific problem with a certain pickup that I was using. The problem was a huge thump in the attack of certain notes and much of the energy was in the <80Hz range. I used a FEA Dual Band to act as a hard limiter, set so that it would only limit the problem frequencies just enough and leave everything else untouched. It worked pretty well, clamping down on the offenders without significantly altering the overall tone. I no longer use that pickup much and therefore the FEA, beautiful and capable though it is, sits mostly idle.

Prediction-- I am not a good bassist, but I guess that most of the name brand players I've heard would work to "even out the amplitude" digitally, by which I mean, with their fingers.

Having said all that: if you are undaunted and still want to experiment with compressors, I don't think you can do better than FEA. Different, yes, but not better. And no, you can't have mine

-bob

 

[drurb]

If any thread here on the db side needs killin', this be the one. And since I'm probably leading the league in threadkill posts on the db side of TB, who better to do the dirty work?

Disclaimer-- Ian, there is no "expertise," assembled or otherwise, to be found in this post. Just to get that out of the way.

Bold statement-- If a feller wanted to make his upright bass sound like a cheap bass guitar, well shucks all he oughta do is get hisself wunna them compressor gizmos, crank it up, and squash every last little bit of life right out of his signal boy howdy amen. 'Course, you don't gotta squeeze that hard, but every little bit of compression you use gives you that much less upright and that much more bass guitar.

Personal opinion-- In general, compression is overrated, overused, and over-misunderstood. With particular respect to double bass, it should be avoided when possible and used carefully and expertly only if necessary to fix a particular, specifc problem.

Personal experience-- That said, I have yes indeedy used a compressor, on stage, to address a particular specific problem with a certain pickup that I was using. The problem was a huge thump in the attack of certain notes and much of the energy was in the <80Hz range. I used a FEA Dual Band to act as a hard limiter, set so that it would only limit the problem frequencies just enough and leave everything else untouched. It worked pretty well, clamping down on the offenders without significantly altering the overall tone. I no longer use that pickup much and therefore the FEA, beautiful and capable though it is, sits mostly idle.

Prediction-- I am not a good bassist, but I guess that most of the name brand players I've heard would work to "even out the amplitude" digitally, by which I mean, with their fingers.

Having said all that: if you are undaunted and still want to experiment with compressors, I don't think you can do better than FEA. Different, yes, but not better. And no, you can't have mine

-bob

Thanks for the echo, Bob.

 

[Jason Hollar]

After a bunch of gigs with the Keeley compressor this spring, I went back to my trusty Boss Bass EQ on a few jobs.

I felt that I was maybe missing a little something with the Boss, so I broke out the Keeley again. Glad I did. It seems to add just the right amount of vibe - but it's also super transparent at the same time.

I'm guess I'm using it more like a very subtle limiter and much less of a compressor. It feels good when I dig in, and it sounds great at just about any conservative setting.

Not trying to convince anyone (except maybe the OP) - but it's not that bad at all. I can see how some compressors could squish the snot out of an upright - but Keeley seems to have a winner here - at least for me.

 

[chuck3]

with drurb on this. I sometimes use a little compression on electric bass (mainly to damp down the effects chain if it's that kind of gig). But one of the joys of the double bass is the dynamic range and all the subtly percussive sounds you can get out of it. Wouldn't compress it.

 

[Pat Harris]

I've been using the AnalogMan Bi-Comprossor on my DB with some great results. Granted, I'm using it more as an effect than trying to squash dynamics with it. The best solution I've found for the fast arco/pizz volume gap is an eq pedal. Get your normal pizz tone dialed in, and then use the EQ pedal for your arco tone. A good place would to start would to cut the EQ pedal's output by a few dB, and then sculpt the tone from there. The other option is to just accept that playing arco "plugged in" is going to require a different touch from playing completely acoustic.

 

[drurb]

I've been using the AnalogMan Bi-Comprossor on my DB with some great results. Granted, I'm using it more as an effect than trying to squash dynamics with it.

A compressor, by definition, will "squash" dynamics. That occurs regardless of one's intent. Is it the case that you're turning off the compression on the device?

The best solution I've found for the fast arco/pizz volume gap is an eq pedal. Get your normal pizz tone dialed in, and then use the EQ pedal for your arco tone. A good place would to start would to cut the EQ pedal's output by a few dB, and then sculpt the tone from there....

A disparity in level is best addressed by adjusting level. If, however, you desire different tone-shaping for arco than for pizz., then a good set of tone controls would be the tools of choice. A compressor would seem to be of no benefit for the issues you mention addressing and, IMO, it would be detrimental.

 

[Les Fret]

I've been using the AnalogMan Bi-Comprossor on my DB with some great results.

Interesting! I also have the Analog Man Bi-Comprossor. Only used it for guitar and I like it for that. Tried it a few times on my electric bass but I think it squached the sound too much so I gave up. Never thought of using it on my double bass though. What settings are you using exactly on the pedal? I want to give it a try on my double bass.

 

[Pat Harris]

Interesting! I also have the Analog Man Bi-Comprossor. Only used it for guitar and I like it for that. Tried it a few times on my electric bass but I think it squached the sound too much so I gave up. Never thought of using it on my double bass though. What settings are you using exactly on the pedal? I want to give it a try on my double bass.

Les,

I realize we're getting a bit off topic from the OP, however, On the BiComp, the two settings (one for each side of the pedal) I like are:

Ross - Attack maxed out (so the transients of the UB can still get through without being overly compressed), the sustain at around 9:00, and the volume just a bit hotter than when the pedal is off. As far as the "effect" nature of the pedal, not only will it squash the dynamics as Drub pointed out, but it also imparts some of its own "tone" which to me has a bit of a midrange grind. I'm not using the pedal engaged for entire shows, but I have really liked it for solo spots. It can really tame the low end and the midrange bump can poke through the mix.

OS - Set quite a bit louder than when the pedal is "off," with all interior trim pots maxed out. This puts you in Tony Levin-compression territory and sounds like a brick wall. Granted, I'm purposefully *not* trying to get a transparent UB tone when using this. It's for effect.

Toward that end, I have used the Ross side of the box with good results for arco as well. I turn the attack all the way down (very fast attack, starts compressing immediately), the sustain at around 8:00, and the volume slightly lower than what the pedal would be if disengaged. It's very minimal compression and coloration, but it does "tighten" up the low end and works well for what I need it to do. I can dig in with the bow without completely ruining the mix out front. Again, it's not transparent, but it does what I need it to do.

 

[Les Fret]

Ross - Attack maxed out (so the transients of the UB can still get through without being overly compressed)

OS - Set quite a bit louder than when the pedal is "off," with all interior trim pots maxed out. This puts you in Tony Levin-compression territory and sounds like a brick wall. Granted, I'm purposefully *not* trying to get a transparent UB tone when using this. It's for effect.

Thanks! I have to try the Bi comp for bass and double bass again. Never thought of maxing out the attack (you all the way to right? just to be sure).

Never used the OS much I have to say. Never was sure what to think about it. Also never touched the inside trim pots. Have to try this also.
The Ross side of the Bi-comp is more pronounced compression. More sqauched then the OS. The OS is less noticeable I think.

Tony Levin is one of my bass heroes. I like his tone. He also uses the Bi-Comp. Mainly for his Chapman Stick I think.

 

[Pat Harris]

Never thought of maxing out the attack (you all the way to right? just to be sure).

That's correct, on the Ross side the "attack" gets set all the way to the right so more of the transient attack gets through. The OS side IMO is most apparent when played on bass guitar really aggressively with a pick. It can give you that sort of "kick drum" attack to each note.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I just picked up a Keeley Bassist (the newer 3 band model) for my electric rig and decided to try it on the upright. The pedal has a 1 MegOhm input (I think) so it's a good match for my piezo pup. I have the effect at a very conservative setting 2:1 ratio and the threshold just picking up the hottest notes. There's a ton of gain if you need it - but I'm just leaving it at unity for now.

Overall, it seems to roll off the super low end and super high end and squishes it all back into a more focused / fatter sound. It's super clean, and my mark bass 1x12 combo seems to be a good match. It does add a little sustain which is nice for soloing and harmonics and stuff. Overall, it's a subtle, pleasing sound to me - and seems to warm up the piezo tone somewhat.

Just checking in to see where you are with this these days. I've been curious about using a compressor live since I've been getting familiar with them in the recording studio. I hate the sound when people use them a a default "squash this signal until it's as loud as possible with no dynamic range" kind of thing, but engineers with ears who actually listen can really put some sparkle on a bass track with them.

For my purposes, where I would like to do a little experimenting is as a sort of "boost" pedal for soloing in louder environments; in certain situations, it feels awkward to take a solo because so much of the nuance is eaten up by the ambient noise floor of the room, and in these situations playing a solo where only the loudest bits can be heard can feel a bit like whispering on a modern infotainment "panel discussion". While I wouldn't want to do anything to the signal I use when accompanying, it would be nice to have the recourse to rise above that level to take a solo if I want.

I've heard your recordings on your website and can tell that you appreciate playing in a nuanced way when accompanying, and would be interested to hear any more thoughts on the compressor issue you might feel like sharing.

 

[Feral Feline]

For studio-like control and sound clarity, you can't go wrong with one of these:

 

[Jason Hollar]

You know, I really liked the Keeley on my Upton > Full Circle > Markbass CMD 121p. I used it more like a slight boost / limiter as opposed to an actual compressor (with that squishy warm goodness.) It was much more clean & transparent sounding - by design.

I originally bought the Keeley to use with my electric rig ... Yamaha TRB 1005 > GK 700rbii > SWR G3 2x10. Unfortunately, I think I pump a little too much gain (with active low EQ) through my system and the Keeley distorted unpleasantly once or twice on a gig so I decided to jettison the extra cargo.

I'd still like a nice compressor and I do haunt the FX thread over on the BG side every now and then to see what the cool kids are using (for visual evidence see previous Cali 76 post).

I used to have an Eden Navigator preamp in my rock star rack rig and it had THE BEST on board compressor. It was just a knob or two, super easy to dial in, and never ever sounded bad. I do miss the ease of use and that fat, warm boost that kind of compressor offered.

I might try another compressor pedal again in the future, but for now, I'm either just going straight into the amp (because I'm getting old and crotchety and don't want to schlepp any extra kit) - or I'll use my trusty Boss Bass EQ in a loud room since it's also got a 1 MegOhm input and has a really clean boost too.

 

[MR PC]

The Whirlwind Bass Compressor is excellent, just two knobs and a3 position mini toggle. The Whirlwind 10 Band Graphic EQ is also excellent. Tons of gain available from both. Both have 1meg input and use 18v power. Compression on upright is a tricky thing IME...a very little goes a long way to taming the dynamics of piezos...after that it is most definitely an "effect".

EDIT: And FWIW, I've had success putting the comp in the amp's effects loop post eq sometimes.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I currently own an FEA Opti-FET, but never found the range with for my Rob Allen Mouse 5, but that may have been because I was trying to get more dynamic range out of that beast for a tour where I couldn't take a DB. Will play around with it on DB and see if I fare any better.