Condenser mic for live vocals?

[DWBass]

My wife switched from a dynamic Electrovoice to a condenser Neumann KMS 105 and never looked back - it added an enormous amount of depth to the voice texture and made all kinds of detail audible, compared to any given dynamic mike. Bottom line: she comes across much better.

Of course she still has to fight the occasional lazy/sexist sound guy who after putting the house's studio quality condenser mikes on all the horn players, walks over to the stage with a SM58 in his hand and tells her 'take this, it's just as good'.

Dude? $700 for a mic?

 

[MonkeyBass]

See I told you a bunch of people would say I was wrong about the SM58 didn't I?

How many of you that disagree are live audio engineers? There's a big difference between being on the stage and being behind the board.

 

[fishdreams]

Uh... using a 58 isn't being lazy. It's knowing the mic will work. I've had very very funky things happen with Neumanns. A 58 works every time.

I didnt say it's always lazy, but if the soundguy in my (real life) example puts studio quality condensers on the horns, than it IS lazy to force a worse and coarse sounding mike (for this singer) upon someone.

A Squier works always too. That is no excuse for a soundguiy to hand you one instead of playing the Fodera you brought yourself. Your voice is your instrumnet, a singer has a right to use his/her own tools just like anyone else.

 

[fishdreams]

Dude? $700 for a mic?

yes, and in the case of my wife, the difference is day and night.

She performs all over the world, and it's the only piece of equipment she invested in for her instrument. It is worth every penny, and considering the money I have spent on my gear, for example, dirt cheap..

That said, I have nothing against the SM58. It's a great go-to mic for lots of people, and my own untrained barking voice would greatly be served by it. I also have nothing against Squiers. But that doesn't mean every bass player should be told play one.

 

[Bassbubble11]

NO.

+1

 

[DWBass]

yes, and in the case of my wife, the difference is day and night.

She performs all over the world, and it's the only piece of equipment she invested in for her instrument. It is worth every penny, and considering the money I have spent on my gear, for example, dirt cheap..

That said, I have nothing against the SM58. It's a great go-to mic for lots of people, and my own untrained barking voice would greatly be served by it. I also have nothing against Squiers. But that doesn't mean every bass player should be told play one.

Oh, no doubt! Just got sticker shock! I wish my singers took pride in what they sing through. They use anything and don't have mics of their own. BL uses cheap Vocopro wireless mics but I always use my trusty SM58 wired.

 

[RFord04]

I'm almost hesitant to post this, because I have very little experience with many live mics, but I've been using a Blue enCore 200 for about two years now with great results. It is a condenser mic, and it definitely blows away an SM58 for my own voice. It definitely has a lot more detail and more high end... more "airy"... but no less content in the midrange. I don't know what the specs are as for the pickup patern, but it has never given me feedback issues, and I play a lot of different places, and we're fairly loud on stage, especially myself, as I normally don't get p.a. support with our traveling p.a.. They're worth a look, and can be had for less than $150 at most Guitar Center stores. Also, I haven't abused it much yet (knock on wood), but it seems to be built very solidly.

 

[lowfreq33]

See I told you a bunch of people would say I was wrong about the SM58 didn't I?

How many of you that disagree are live audio engineers? There's a big difference between being on the stage and being behind the board.

Dude, there are a lot of audio engineers on this board...

58's have a lot of good qualities, but they're not always the best mic for every voice. True, a 58 will always sound ok, but I like to aim a little higher than "ok".

 

[MonkeyBass]

Dude, there are a lot of audio engineers on this board...

58's have a lot of good qualities, but they're not always the best mic for every voice. True, a 58 will always sound ok, but I like to aim a little higher than "ok".

OK I'll give you that.

Ok, here's why I get a little up in arms about the fancy vocal mics:
I have my eq's set for 58's I have my compressors set for 58's, I have my gain structure set for 58's... if you want to use another mic that's fine, I'm totally down with that, but it seems that 9 times out of 10 the person that shows up with the condenser that feedsback in the monitor and has uncontrollable EQ problems is the person that shows up 5 minutes before doors open so I don't have the chance to make it work for them. Then they complain loudly about how it sounds bad.

If you use a mic that's drastically different than a 58 (I'm not talking OM2's, MD431's, stuff like that) then get there early so we can work on it. Otherwise you're subject to funky conditions.

I'm a damn good sound guy with years of experience, so please don't misread what I'm saying. Perhaps I didn't make my point.

The 58 is a good mic. It's not a great mic. But it's good for stage and it's reliable and easy to use. And 99% of the venues out there are using them. So if you want ease, get a 58. If you want something nicer, that's awesome! Just get something similar in design to a 58. And by that I mean, similar EQ curve, similar output levels, and certainly the same (or better) feedback rejection.

Avoid the mics that are too good for their own good. Like the Neumann vocal stage condensors. Great mics! But they require the sound guy to tweek them to make them work in a system that's set up for a 58.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

 

[craig.p]

I didn't mind SM58s all that much -- when I ran across a good one. The problem I kept running into was sample-to-sample consistency. Some sounded pretty good, some sounded hot, some sounded flat and lifeless. And yeah, the screens and elements on the bad ones I ran across were clean/unblocked. What's more frustrating was that new or used seemed to make no difference, so there was no way to predict. The drummer for a band I was in some months ago has three 58s in his practice room. He treats his stuff with kid gloves. Well, each of those 58s he owns sounds like a totally different mic from the other two. One sounded almost as good as my [del]833[/del] 835, one sounded meh, and one sounded like the wrong end of a dog with diarrhea. I don't need that sort of aggravation and unpredictability. God bless the people the 58s are working out for, truly, but I saw so much variation in them over the years that I eventually lost my patience and decided never to go back.

 

[Slevage]

A Beta 58 A. Because the super cardiod pattern will have better rejection. You'll be able to make the highs sparkle easier without feedback.

If you use a wedge in front of you, be sure to put it "off axis"
in the dead region of the mic. NOt directly in line with the mic.

 

[Munjibunga]

My wife switched from a dynamic Electrovoice to a condenser Neumann KMS 105 and never looked back - it added an enormous amount of depth to the voice texture and made all kinds of detail audible, compared to any given dynamic mike. Bottom line: she comes across much better.

Of course she still has to fight the occasional lazy/sexist sound guy who after putting all the house's studio quality condenser mikes on the horn players, walks over to the stage with a SM58 in his hand and tells her 'take this, it's just as good'. No it's not.

OP: I'd go with the condenser if if makes you sound better than a dynamic mike. It's you and your voice, your tone. Everybody else will have to deal with it.

The problem I had with the KMS105 was a very high-pitched feedback through the monitors. While it's a good-sounding mic, it's too finicky for me. I don't have those issues with the KSM9, and I prefer the sound. For bar gigs and the like, I stick with SM58s and Beta58As - no one's going to hear any difference between them and the $700 mics in that environment. BTW, you'll pay a lot less for either the KMS105 or the KSM9 at Northern Sound and Light.

 

[ggunn]

A Squier works always too. That is no excuse for a soundguiy to hand you one instead of playing the Fodera you brought yourself. Your voice is your instrumnet, a singer has a right to use his/her own tools just like anyone else.

Apples and oranges. That Fodera isn't going to send the PA into feedback. It's not about "rights", it's about the show.