Confessions of a Flatwound convert...

[Bassman316]

For about a month now I've had roundwounds on a minority of my collection, which is the first time ever for me (that is if you consider tapewounds a cross between rounds and flats, and not true rounds). Usually I've had a set of flats on just one bass. I relate to Sundogue's experience with rounds sounding small and thin when it comes to notes on the D and G strings. I'm rocking the Chromes on three of my basses and they sound more and more wicked each day.

 

[Count Bassie]

Just put on some strings and get out and play ! You will find what works for YOU...Don't get caught up in all this hype...

This is just a discussion among peers (we presume).

Generally you want to try and get everything you can out of what you have before you go mongering strings and other accessories. Think you need flats to play Motown? You don't. Use your tone knob! Nuance and feel is going to give you the mojo with or without the "right strings".

Point is you really ought to know what you can do with what you have, so I will join in and sing here with P-Bass on this most certain point.

Sometime in your carreer though, you'll want to try something else. There are a lot of flavors out there- but nothing will make you sound like someone else.

 

[lmfreeman9]

For about a month now I've had roundwounds on a minority of my collection, which is the first time ever for me (that is if you consider tapewounds a cross between rounds and flats, and not true rounds). Usually I've had a set of flats on just one bass. I relate to Sundogue's experience with rounds sounding small and thin when it comes to notes on the D and G strings. I'm rocking the Chromes on three of my basses and they sound more and more wicked each day.

I think of tapewounds as being more flat than flatwounds.
Anyone else?

 

[Count Bassie]

I think of tapewounds as being more flat than flatwounds.
Anyone else?

More flat-sounding. Maybe 'duller', more straight-thump, overall.

I'd just like to adjust a statement I made above: In my opinion, Motown type material sounds better with flats. That's a general statement, subject to whatever. But you can play anything on anything. Yes, you can. I can't worry about my set-up at a gig when suddenly I'm playing something that might kind of 'belong' somewhere else... play the mofo!

 

[Sundogue]

This is just a discussion among peers (we presume).

Generally you want to try and get everything you can out of what you have before you go mongering strings and other accessories. Think you need flats to play Motown? You don't. Use your tone knob! Nuance and feel is going to give you the mojo with or without the "right strings".

Point is you really ought to know what you can do with what you have, so I will join in and sing here with P-Bass on this most certain point.

Sometime in your carreer though, you'll want to try something else. There are a lot of flavors out there- but nothing will make you sound like someone else.

Excellent points. In as much as we may hear certain bass tones that we may wish to emulate, it's all about finding out what you, yourself, wish to sound like. Forget about sounding like Chris Squire or James Jamerson. Try to find your own sound.

I'm certainly not trying to sound like anyone but me. I sound like me no matter what gear I play on or through. But there are noticeable differences in tone depending on the combinations of gear used, even though we'll all still sound like ourselves. In my cover band, the sound I'm after has little to do with the original tone or equipment of the recording bass player. It has everything to do with what works for my band's sound live and how I fit the bass in. In my originals band, again I'm only concerned with what fits the music we write and it's my decision what tone I'm after.

There is more variety and choices in equipment today than ever before. We actually can find just the right bass, amp, cab or the right strings that suit us and helps achieve what we hear ourselves sounding like in our head. And what is right for each of us is totally subjective.

Gone are the days when our only choice was a Fender P-Bass strung with flats. But if it truly is ALL in our hands, why aren't we all still just playing a P-Bass with flats then?

 

[monsterthompson]

Had a wild experience on Sunday. The guitarist showed up with a Strat instead of his Les Paul. The key player also showed up with a new keyboard (which was much needed). The tone balance for the band shifted quite a bit and I was struggling to find the "guts" to make everything rock. The new key sound didn't eat up as much of the mid and low frequencies as the old one did. The Strat sound was so much thinner than the Les Paul and generated a lower gain distortion (compared to the full & fat humbucker induced fuzz) that I found my low&thumpy sound I've moved to with the flats needed to be shifted to a more mid-EQ snarl for the "rock" band to rock; it had me wanting my LoRiders back on the bass. I was able to EQ some guts back into the sound on-the-fly, and I probably could have fine-tuned it to be an better sound with some more time, but the interesting point is how the tone the flats had lead me to didn't fit well in this revised mix, despite being brilliant in the mix a week prior. Now, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water; I just thought it fair to bring this point to the discussion.

I also had a bud come over and play my bass this weekend. He had played it when I first picked it up a few months back and he had stated that he loved the tone on the D&G strings particularly up around the 12th fret, but that there seemed to be something lacking down in the lower frets and lower strings. I agreed. I was also still using the stock strings on the bass that were gawd-knows how old and worn from the showroom floor. He noticed that the LaBella flats didn't sound quite as nice in the same 12th-fret D/G region, but they still sounded nice, and more importantly, that the rest of the fretboard came alive and felt much more balanced since I had it strung with the LaBella flats.

I just thought y'all would appreciate these experiences as food for thought.

 

[Sundogue]

Had a wild experience on Sunday. The guitarist showed up with a Strat instead of his Les Paul. The key player also showed up with a new keyboard (which was much needed). The tone balance for the band shifted quite a bit and I was struggling to find the "guts" to make everything rock. The new key sound didn't eat up as much of the mid and low frequencies as the old one did. The Strat sound was so much thinner than the Les Paul and generated a lower gain distortion (compared to the full & fat humbucker induced fuzz) that I found my low&thumpy sound I've moved to with the flats needed to be shifted to a more mid-EQ snarl for the "rock" band to rock; it had me wanting my LoRiders back on the bass. I was able to EQ some guts back into the sound on-the-fly, and I probably could have fine-tuned it to be an better sound with some more time, but the interesting point is how the tone the flats had lead me to didn't fit well in this revised mix, despite being brilliant in the mix a week prior. Now, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water; I just thought it fair to bring this point to the discussion.

I also had a bud come over and play my bass this weekend. He had played it when I first picked it up a few months back and he had stated that he loved the tone on the D&G strings particularly up around the 12th fret, but that there seemed to be something lacking down in the lower frets and lower strings. I agreed. I was also still using the stock strings on the bass that were gawd-knows how old and worn from the showroom floor. He noticed that the LaBella flats didn't sound quite as nice in the same 12th-fret D/G region, but they still sounded nice, and more importantly, that the rest of the fretboard came alive and felt much more balanced since I had it strung with the LaBella flats.

I just thought y'all would appreciate these experiences as food for thought.

A perfect example of using whatever is needed to fit the sound the band is after. No doubt, once your guitar player switched sounds, things would change sonically for you as well...not to mention the keyboardist changing things up.

If I were in a three piece band, or my existing band changed things where it would make more sense for me to switch back, I'd be all over bright piano-like roundwounds.

It's cool you could hear where things fit with your sound and are willing to compensate and make it work for the band.

 

[monsterthompson]

Yeah, it has been a long time coming for me to get my ears and my brain to the point where I hear and understand this. I kinda like the other band members sounding thinner, because it gives me more reason to stomp on my MXR Blow Torch - I LOVE playing with fuzz ...it just doesn't fit well in every sonic setting.

 

[Sundogue]

Yeah, it has been a long time coming for me to get my ears and my brain to the point where I hear and understand this. I kinda like the other band members sounding thinner, because it gives me more reason to stomp on my MXR Blow Torch - I LOVE playing with fuzz ...it just doesn't fit well in every sonic setting.

I'm not a real big effects person, and I use my Zoom B2 more like a preamp. But when we do some songs by Cheap Trick I can get a good 12 string bass thing happening with it, and for some other songs I use a Chorus or Flanger and even some with a bit of distortion.

I have found that although roundwounds "open up" the character of the effects I use more, for a flatwound the Chromes sound very good with the few effects I do use. I can also get a pretty good growl out of the Chromes using a bit of distortion and boosting my highs more than usual. I was concerned that flats wouldn't work very good at all with effects, but they do work. Again, though you can do quite a lot with either flats or rounds, there is a case where one type of string just works better than the other for a particular sound. In this case, while flats can work well with effects, rounds just work better.

It's all a matter of what the needs are and what works best for a given situation. No matter what one uses, there are some compromises to be made (to varying degrees), especially in a live setting.

 

[monsterthompson]

I'm not sure how much is my EQ and how much is my strings, but I do notice the Bass Wah (105q) and the Fuzz (Blow Torch) require some extra tweak to make the effects stand out. I've even noticed it with using my new delay pedal to simulate chorus/flange effects. I've got to crank the trebble for the effected sound to stand out more.

 

[freshbass]

Amen brother bass! I had the exact same experience and been playing almost 40 years. All that time I missed the sound I started with. A few years ago i joined a 10 pc soul band w/ a drummer who is an al jackson clone and the groove was great...but missing something. The great Carol Kaye told me to try TI flats and I have never gone back.
Flatwounds = hit records = jamerson, dunn, kaye, jemmott,McCartney, wyman, weeks, babbitt, and many more...real bass...real grooves.
Live the low life.

 

[Sundogue]

Amen brother bass! I had the exact same experience and been playing almost 40 years. All that time I missed the sound I started with. A few years ago i joined a 10 pc soul band w/ a drummer who is an al jackson clone and the groove was great...but missing something. The great Carol Kaye told me to try TI flats and I have never gone back.
Flatwounds = hit records = jamerson, dunn, kaye, jemmott,McCartney, wyman, weeks, babbitt, and many more...real bass...real grooves.
Live the low life.

Yeah, I was just talking with another TB'er about this flatwound thing. It's not so much the strings themselves as as it is switching to flatwound strings making me re-think why I play bass.

I recently played with two drummers (one of which I've never played with before) and both had almost identical comments about playing with me...they said "It was like you were inside my head the whole time". Of course it isn't the strings. But I'm rethinking my role as a bass player because of the way flats feel and sound to me. I'm playing less fills and accenting what the drummer is doing more. I'm not only giving the guitarists more space, but I'm thoroughly enjoying playing simple things and letting the drummer do more fills, playing off my bass.

It's almost like a role reversal where I'm playing drums and letting the drummer play the bass lines. I do feel that the flats are locking my tone in with the drums where my bass is an extension of the drums rather than a lower tuned guitar.

Once can certainly do these things playing rounds...that's not my point. It's about the sound flats give me that is giving me some freedom to be more comfortable in the groove instead of showy. It's as if the tone has given me back my bass.

 

[Rugaar]

I switched over to bass a few years ago after playing guitar for several years. My first bass came with rounds but it just didn't sound right to me. I changed it over to flats and have never looked back. It's the sound of bass that I hear in my mind. I can't stand playing a bass with rounds anymore.

There have been a couple comments in this thread that folks like flats but they'd use rounds if they played in a trio. I've gotta disagree. I'm in a 3-piece band and flats work great. Guitar, drums, bass--plenty of sonic room for everyone. I love it.

 

[Sundogue]

I switched over to bass a few years ago after playing guitar for several years. My first bass came with rounds but it just didn't sound right to me. I changed it over to flats and have never looked back. It's the sound of bass that I hear in my mind. I can't stand playing a bass with rounds anymore.

There have been a couple comments in this thread that folks like flats but they'd use rounds if they played in a trio. I've gotta disagree. I'm in a 3-piece band and flats work great. Guitar, drums, bass--plenty of sonic room for everyone. I love it.

I've stated that I'd probably switch back to rounds if I played in a trio, but that is really dependent on the music played. My reasoning would be that rounds sustain longer, have more harmonics and overtones that would help fill a void created by having only one guitarist.

I mean, if I play a note that needs to ring out while the guitarist is playing a solo for example, the last thing I'd want is the quick decay of that note that flats give.

I've played in trios many times over the years (one of which was a Stevie Ray Vaughn tribute band) and while I'm digging flats right now, rounds worked better in that situation...for me.

But, having said that, I love the sound of my Chromes so much right now that if I were in a trio I'd at least give them a shot.

I'm all for doing whatever the music calls for and what works best for the bands sound. I just don't even care all that much what 'my' tone is any more. That quest for the perfect tone is no longer my "holy grail". For me, I just want to make my bass be the backbone of the band by locking in with the drummer (in both time and sound) and if my personally favorite tone suffers in achieving that, I'm cool with it.

Gotta do whatever works best. Cool that you can get flats to work in a three piece situation.

 

[dvh]

Use them (flats) in a trio. Everyone loves them.

 

[funkytoe]

Gotta confess. I love me some flats -- and on my Hofner, I would not even consider roundwound strings.

But, I always keep roundwounds on my Gibson. I think that the Gibby might also sound better with flats, but the roundwounds make it more versatile.

I can always manipulate the rounds to sound like flats (tone knob, play with pick, right and left hand muting). However, I cannot make my flats sound like roundwounds.

And that for me is the bottom line. I prefer the sound of flats on my basses. But, I can cover more sonic territory with my roundwounds. Thats why I keep them on my #1.

 

[Sundogue]

Gotta confess. I love me some flats -- and on my Hofner, I would not even consider roundwound strings.

But, I always keep roundwounds on my Gibson. I think that the Gibby might also sound better with flats, but the roundwounds make it more versatile.

I can always manipulate the rounds to sound like flats (tone knob, play with pick, right and left hand muting). However, I cannot make my flats sound like roundwounds.

And that for me is the bottom line. I prefer the sound of flats on my basses. But, I can cover more sonic territory with my roundwounds. Thats why I keep them on my #1.

Yeah, I can get close to a flatwound sound with rounds (using the same techniques, controls), but close just wasn't close enough for me.

And really I can get just about as close to roundwound sounding with my Chromes (which are a pretty bright flat) using my effects/modeling pedal (adding a bit of distortion and a touch of chorus...and digging in a bit more with a pick) as I can to a flatwound tone with rounds. It's similar to those who use tube pre's with a SS amp to cop an "all tube" amp tone. Close just isn't close enough in some cases.

Flats are definitely not one-trick-ponies anymore. My flatwound Chromes are brighter than the DR Sunbeam rounds they replaced. Though of course, the rounds have more sustain, harmonics and overtones that the flats don't have, so rounds have their place. I do know that my Chromes are staying brighter longer than any rounds I've had (and so do my TI Jazz Flats), so the benefit of rounds for me only lasts as long as the strings do. Once rounds lose that new bright tone, they sound more dull to me than even the dullest flats I've tried. For me, flats keep their tone longer and I have less need to change strings with flats.

But, we need to do whatever works best for each of us, and it's a matter of preference.

 

[Deacon_Blues]

I think I need to buy a five string jazz and some custom made pyramid flats. God I like the sound I got on this track: Invalid Link Removed (jamming over a backing track)

It was my 4-string fender jazz with the strings (Pyramid flats) tuned town quite a bit (C-Ab-Db-Gb). The E string got a little sloppy, but I like the low growl I got with the string tuned down this much. No eq or effects used on the track, the only altering was that my tube preamp/compressor was driven up close to saturation and a slight compression was used.

I'm pretty sure rounds wouldn't have given me the same full sound as these flats gave me here.

 

[JSK5String]

Well, where to begin? When I saw this thread the first time, it's as if I wrote the first posting. Sundogue plays the same kind of music as me, has been playing as long as me, has been playing rounds as long as me, has the exact same instrument mix in his band as me, has been struggling with the same "how do I make the rhythm section hit harder w/o just being louder" question as me. Got to say, it really freaked me out a bit.

Soooooooo, I'm in.

I strung my J with Chrome flats yesterday. Our lead player is on family vacation, so I've got a couple of weeks to break them in before our next rehearsal. I'm going to run a controlled experiment. I've got the drummer and keyboard player in on the switch, but I'm not telling the guitar players. I'll post the results after I get some feedback from the boys in the band.

I will say this, I played them for about an hour yesterday and my bass just seems to be in a lower register. I fully know it's not, but it just seems that way.

I would like to thank Sundogue for the very insightful original posting in this thread that helped me realize that no matter how much I love the guy - I'm not Geddy, I'll never be Geddy, my band isn't Rush, we'll never be Rush. What's that they say? The first step to a cure is admitting you have a problem. Oh, the pain!

I'm holding on to my delusion that chicks dig me. It's all I have left...

 

[Sundogue]

Well, where to begin? When I saw this thread the first time, it's as if I wrote the first posting. Sundogue plays the same kind of music as me, has been playing as long as me, has been playing rounds as long as me, has the exact same instrument mix in his band as me, has been struggling with the same "how do I make the rhythm section hit harder w/o just being louder" question as me. Got to say, it really freaked me out a bit.

Soooooooo, I'm in.

I strung my J with Chrome flats yesterday. Our lead player is on family vacation, so I've got a couple of weeks to break them in before our next rehearsal. I'm going to run a controlled experiment. I've got the drummer and keyboard player in on the switch, but I'm not telling the guitar players. I'll post the results after I get some feedback from the boys in the band.

I will say this, I played them for about an hour yesterday and my bass just seems to be in a lower register. I fully know it's not, but it just seems that way.

I would like to thank Sundogue for the very insightful original posting in this thread that helped me realize that no matter how much I love the guy - I'm not Geddy, I'll never be Geddy, my band isn't Rush, we'll never be Rush. What's that they say? The first step to a cure is admitting you have a problem. Oh, the pain!

I'm holding on to my delusion that chicks dig me. It's all I have left...

You're welcome. I figured I wasn't the only one to think that way.

They say "A man's got to know his limitations". While I truly believe limitations are self imposed, I do at least embrace what I am limiting myself to. For now it is mostly a classic hard rock band where I'm playing the more traditional role of a bass player. And flats are working great for me right now.

As far as chicks digging me...well, now that I'm not trying to be a "Geddy" clone, me and my wireless are taking me out there on the dance floor with them. They seem to dig it.

Keep us posted on the experiment!