I've only been playing for a little over a year now. But had the same thoughts on flats. I wanted to be heard. Didn't want to be "lost" in the mix. Needed to stand out. STP was big when I was in middle/high school. But didnt really get into them until recently. After playing bass I fell in love with Robert DeLeo's sound. It sits in the back perfectly and just flat out grooves. Because of him, I threw on some Chromes on my CV 60's P. I will never go back to rounds now. I feel like a bassist now. And love playing more than ever.
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Confessions of a Flatwound convert...
- Thread starter Sundogue
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Dad and Mom gave me the Framus Atlantic for Christmas of 1965, while living in Wiesbaden Germany, my only other option was the Hofner, which I didn't like at all. it was a good bass for a 12 year old kid. I was in a band by New Years day. I played violin and concert bass for the previous 3 years, these instruments were not available to me in the Armed Forces school system, I had to play, without this Framus, I would have smothered.
I played it until I bought my Fender P-Special in 1981, I still have it.
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that one looks a lot cooler than mine. same pickups but the tuners look a lot better. and of course, yours is hollow and unusually shaped, which automatically makes it way cooler.
Did you know that Sir Paul's first bass was a Framus "Zenith" model 17, he traded a trumpet for it.
Fred Wilfer owned Framus but it went belly up in the 70s, his son, Hans Peter Wilfer, started the company back up under the mame of Warwick.
Fred Wilfer owned Framus but it went belly up in the 70s, his son, Hans Peter Wilfer, started the company back up under the mame of Warwick.
I can imagine, in retrospect, nothing made today is anywhere near as lame as this old Framus. still all the years I played it ment a lot to me. When I plug it in now it actually sucks tone out of the room 
Well I've got to laminate up a couple more necks for the cigarbox basses I need to finish.
Well I've got to laminate up a couple more necks for the cigarbox basses I need to finish.
yes you do. he is a super awesome and can leap tall buildings in a single bound.
yeah, i pulled that card. his response was along the lines of "but that is his band the the recordings and live EQ will be sure to reflect that." srsly
don't hate my argument by saying he gets special EQ treatment, just admit that if the guys behind the board know what they are doing, the sound will be fine (assuming the sound coming out of the amp is good). I still <3 Rudy.Gentlemen,
a recent observation in regards to the board guys:
I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that he's EQed my
JD Basic IV with GHS Precision Flats on the stack amp like this:
bass and low-mid rolled off to 9AM,hi-mid rolled on to 3PM,highs rolled off moderately.
Don't know how he treated this setup on the board later(apparently,even more bass got cut), but I am impressed with the result- here you go:
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So basically I only was playing in hi-mids and even that meat was enough.Long live flats!
a recent observation in regards to the board guys:
I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that he's EQed my
JD Basic IV with GHS Precision Flats on the stack amp like this:
bass and low-mid rolled off to 9AM,hi-mid rolled on to 3PM,highs rolled off moderately.
Don't know how he treated this setup on the board later(apparently,even more bass got cut), but I am impressed with the result- here you go:
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So basically I only was playing in hi-mids and even that meat was enough.Long live flats!
A brief update on my Chromes adventure. I was practicing through my amp a few nights ago, and I notice that my tone was unclear and muddy, and passages over the 12 fret just weren't happening. I was really depressed, because it felt like someone had turned the 'suck' knob on my amp to 11.
Then, in a flash of inspiration, I put the TI flats back on my bass, and suddenly my tone opened right back up! Sustain was increased, clarity was better over the 12 fret, and the G string was less twangy. My bach cello suite was much more music. More to the point, the lowest notes on the bass were much clearer and better pronounced. I don't know if I just happened to get a dead A string on that set of Chromes or what, but the A on the TI is so much better for my tastes.
So, based on my experience with Chromes, and TI's, I am not sure if I actually like flats, or just TI flats which are very unique! I LOVE TI flats. They provide that amazing clarity but without grindy string noise that I am always striving for. Also, I was at a blues jam a couple of weeks ago and the house bass player had a 65 P with TI Flats, and even through one of those old, really crappy 80's Peavey 1x15 combo amps, he sounded really great!
Then, in a flash of inspiration, I put the TI flats back on my bass, and suddenly my tone opened right back up! Sustain was increased, clarity was better over the 12 fret, and the G string was less twangy. My bach cello suite was much more music. More to the point, the lowest notes on the bass were much clearer and better pronounced. I don't know if I just happened to get a dead A string on that set of Chromes or what, but the A on the TI is so much better for my tastes.
So, based on my experience with Chromes, and TI's, I am not sure if I actually like flats, or just TI flats which are very unique! I LOVE TI flats. They provide that amazing clarity but without grindy string noise that I am always striving for. Also, I was at a blues jam a couple of weeks ago and the house bass player had a 65 P with TI Flats, and even through one of those old, really crappy 80's Peavey 1x15 combo amps, he sounded really great!
I played a gig recently, 5 shows over two days. Professional sound and lighting, with in-ear monitors and a huge PA. Played the first day with TI flats, and the second day with DR Hi-beams. Bass was a Lakland DJ. Not to rain on this thread, but everyone liked the HI Beams WAY better. They sat in the mix better and sounded much fatter. I didn't even have to ask them which they preferred.
This is a common finding for me. I still like flats, but in my experience along with the feedback of others, the myth that "flats sit better in a mix" is not true at all. YMMV
This is a common finding for me. I still like flats, but in my experience along with the feedback of others, the myth that "flats sit better in a mix" is not true at all. YMMV
I tried Chromes for a few months, liked them, then went to light gauge hi-beams (about as bright and round-woundy as you can get I think). Beautiful mids and highs, but not enough oomph in the fundamentals of the low notes.
Now I'm trying DR DDT's which seem to have the highs of a mellow roundwound and the thick fundamental of a flatwound. Very even response. So far these are my favorite string.
Now I'm trying DR DDT's which seem to have the highs of a mellow roundwound and the thick fundamental of a flatwound. Very even response. So far these are my favorite string.
Hey Jason, great to see you over here and not on the Rh450 page! Also, since you and i play identical rigs but for the basses, we should be pretty comparable. Of course, I think that to categorically say flats, or rounds, are better or worse in the mix is problematic. The OP makes the point that for loud rock he has found this true. Maybe for jazzier music rounds would be best. I think that even the makeup of the bands can make a difference as well as even from bass to bass. Many on this thread have mentioned not liking TI flats with j basses, which the Dj is the ultimate. I mostly used DR highbeams on my Sadowsky Modern 5 until a couple of years ago I tried the TI's and my band immediately loved them. This was an americana band that was acoustic guitar driven, with a lot of busy bass, and a warmer tone seemed to fit. Also, the Modern 5 is really aggressive and beefy and maybe works better with TI flats than a J.
However, I took the flats off when started filling in for a cover band that was really loud and grungy and played hard rock and I couldn't hear myself at all with the flats. I needed more attitude!
I put the TI flats back on when I started playing a lot blues and classic rock stuff. So I guess it is situational. I will always love the Ti flats though and plan to always have a bass with TI's, and a bass with Sunbeams or Hibeams.
I don't really consider TI flats "flats" in the traditional sense of the word. A better comparison would have been LaBella (about as traditional a flat sound as you can get). But almost any other flats would be a better comparison of flats versus rounds than TI.
But it could just be that rounds fit your style more.
Thanks for the responses, guys. I don't think rounds sit better in a mix either. I think it depends on the music style. But you seldom hear "rounds sit better in a mix." Yet that seems to be a common myth about flats. I think it can be true in many contexts, but going to flats doesn't mean you'll suddenly fit right into a mix. In a lot of cases (I'd say most), rounds are the best choice for covering the widest range of musical styles. YMMV as always.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Out of curiosity, what were the instruments in your band, and what kind of music were you playing?
Lakland DJ and Duck Dunn, with both TI's and Chromes. I've had other instruments with the same. The opinion I stated was based on more than just this one experience. By far, rounds work MUCH better as a "Swiss army knife" type of string. Now, don't get me wrong, flats definitely have their place, especially in situations where the sonic space of a music type allows their specific character to come through. I think they work better in cases where more than the fundamental is important. The irony is that the fundamental presence of flats is what most people seem to use to support the myth that flats "sit better in a mix."
To answer your question directly, the music was a bit varied, but was mostly rock/brit type music in this one instance. IMHO/IME, this had nothing to do with the style of music or bass being used. The rounds just worked better as they sustained better, and had more presence in the mix. The highs, at least in the house mix, where a bit dialed back by the FOH engineer such that the extra content of the strings wasn't there. But everything else about rounds is what makes them work.
I really don't want to rain on this parade here with my comments. I think flats are great, but I take EXTREME exception to the general argument by flatwound proponents that those type strings are somehow better for live music because the accentuate the fundamental and have little else going on. IME this isn't true at all. I think the use of flatwound strings is very compelling in some settings, but by large a good bass setup with roundwound strings works better in most settings by far. You can always elimanate much of the upper harmonic content of roundwounds when necessary, yet the strings will provide a good fundamental and plenty of texture for the foundational duties required of playing bass guitar. Said another way, I disagree with folks who seem to constantly suggest that playing flatwounds is the method of choice for making your bass guitar automagically sit in a mix.
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