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Confessions of a Flatwound convert...

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Flats sit better in the mix. There I said it...again.

Of course, like EVERYTHING in life it depends on the context. And since I started this thread and made that comment many, many times throughout (and still feel it is true) I should point out that my feelings on the subject are based on me playing in a traditional classic rock band and my personal tonal goals are anything but old, traditional flatwound "thud". All things being equal, it was the string change that made the difference. After years of swapping out cabs, ampheads, basses, and every damn set of roundwounds ever made in 30 years of playing, it was the change to flatwounds that made the difference...for me.

Now, I should also point out that I'm using Chromes...a decidedly different kind of cat for a flatwound. In fact I've had the same set on my bass for almost a year and a half now and they still sound bright. :D I would have had a minimum of 9 string changes in that time using rounds, and aside from when rounds were brand new, these Chromes are brighter than week old rounds...still after all this time. They just aren't "zingy bright".

I was playing a gig a couple of weeks back and another band was in the audience as well as a couple of lone guitarists who might audition for an opening. I had played a set where I just felt like doing some slapping (which I seldom do). Man the sound was so rich and clean, yet very tight and well defined. During the break I had three guys all ask me about my setup (with one being strictly a bass player). All three were shocked that I used flats. In fact each had to physically check my bass to see I was indeed using flats (much less ones over a year old).

My Chromes are still rockin' it and while I can't get as bright or zingy as rounds, they are as bright as I need or want them to be AND I don't have to change my strings anymore. And they are rock solid deep down, and IMO (like it were anything but) they do sit in the mix better than any rounds I've ever used. Pretty flippin' cool if you ask me.
 
IMO/IME some basses take well to flats, and sound punchy and articulate and also sit in the mix better in my estimation, while others end up sounding muddier as a result. I tried flats on my old alder/brazilian rosewood Sadowsky PJ5, and while the sound was incredibly rich and warm, it easily got lost in the mix. Now, using the same set of flats on my ash/maple Sadowsky PJ5, the sound is thick and punchy in the lowmids, sits PERFECTLY in the mix, and still sounds great when slapped, although I have to add a little more treble then I would with rounds.
 
IMO/IME some basses take well to flats, and sound punchy and articulate and also sit in the mix better in my estimation, while others end up sounding muddier as a result. I tried flats on my old alder/brazilian rosewood Sadowsky PJ5, and while the sound was incredibly rich and warm, it easily got lost in the mix. Now, using the same set of flats on my ash/maple Sadowsky PJ5, the sound is thick and punchy in the lowmids, sits PERFECTLY in the mix, and still sounds great when slapped, although I have to add a little more treble then I would with rounds.

+1.

A perfect example is that many love a P-Bass with flats, but flats may be a lost cause on a Jazz.

Gotta go with what works. I've always been a P-bass freak though too...even though I'm currently using a passive Washburn fiver (which does seem to give me some very nice P-Bass mid tones).
 
Having a bass with an inherent mid/low-mid kick, which of course is a Pbass's bread and butter over the more slightly-scooped sound of a jbass with both pickups on, is a key ingredient. Although I've heard some KILLER tones with flatwound-strung Jbasses. Another factor is the players right-hand. I like to dig in more with flats, and that produces a stronger fundamental that cuts through better. At least IME.

Another reason I recently switched back to flats is that it makes the transition from upright to electric easier during a show. Before that I'd get done with a song on my BSX EUB, setup up with higher action and gut-emulating hybrid strings, and when I switched to my roundwound-strung Sadowsky, it felt like a friggin toy and it was very hard to adjust to.
 
IMO/IME some basses take well to flats, and sound punchy and articulate and also sit in the mix better in my estimation, while others end up sounding muddier as a result. I tried flats on my old alder/brazilian rosewood Sadowsky PJ5, and while the sound was incredibly rich and warm, it easily got lost in the mix. Now, using the same set of flats on my ash/maple Sadowsky PJ5, the sound is thick and punchy in the lowmids, sits PERFECTLY in the mix, and still sounds great when slapped, although I have to add a little more treble then I would with rounds.

+1000 To this. I also find that my Sadowsky m5-24 (ash/maple) loves TI flats. Deep thick punchy tone with just a little bite to it and adds something to low-mid that you can't eq. This bass is designed to offer a lot of mid-punch and really excels with TI's. I agree with what El Mon said, that you need to play with a little harder touch and a little higher action, ala Jamerson, to get them to really sing. Since I am also a former upright player, I am used to that anyway. Now, I just have to get me an NYC PJ as cool as El Mon's....
 
Another reason I recently switched back to flats is that it makes the transition from upright to electric easier during a show. Before that I'd get done with a song on my BSX EUB, setup up with higher action and gut-emulating hybrid strings, and when I switched to my roundwound-strung Sadowsky, it felt like a friggin toy and it was very hard to adjust to.[/QUOTE

Looking over your gear list is amazing! I find it interesting that you settled on the NYC Sadowsky after owning virtually every other high end bass. I too have been bitten by the Sad bug and also lust after an NYC PJ with a maple board. Question, how does your BSX sound with those velvet garbos?
 
+1000 To this. I also find that my Sadowsky m5-24 (ash/maple) loves TI flats. Deep thick punchy tone with just a little bite to it and adds something to low-mid that you can't eq. This bass is designed to offer a lot of mid-punch and really excels with TI's. I agree with what El Mon said, that you need to play with a little harder touch and a little higher action, ala Jamerson, to get them to really sing. Since I am also a former upright player, I am used to that anyway. Now, I just have to get me an NYC PJ as cool as El Mon's....

Awww shucks.... All I had to do was become obsessed enough with Roger's work (no problems there as you know) and then to save every dollar I could. You'd be surprised how easy it is once you decide 'oh yes, it shall be mine'. About the M5-24, I also ended up stringing it up with TI's when I had it. I primarily used the neck pickup and was surprised at how close it was to a Pbass.
El Mon, are you primarily playing Sadowsky flats? If so, what gauge?

I'm using the regular gauge, 45-130. Love em!!! I don't slap much, and lean more towards an old school tone, so it works perfect for me. Plus when I occasionally need a brighter sound, the Sadowsky EQ is more than enough.

Looking over your gear list is amazing! I find it interesting that you settled on the NYC Sadowsky after owning virtually every other high end bass. I too have been bitten by the Sad bug and also lust after an NYC PJ with a maple board. Question, how does your BSX sound with those velvet garbos?

I've got some clips up on the BSX megathread, and I think the Velvet thread as well, but to state it again, it makes the bass sound even closer to a real URB than it did with steel strings. Garbos have a gut-like feel and response, but with more sustain and pitch clarity, and with none of the tuning issues.
 
Awww shucks.... All I had to do was become obsessed enough with Roger's work (no problems there as you know) and then to save every dollar I could. You'd be surprised how easy it is once you decide 'oh yes, it shall be mine'. About the M5-24, I also ended up stringing it up with TI's when I had it. I primarily used the neck pickup and was surprised at how close it was to a Pbass.

I have found this to be true as well. And why shouldn't it? It is a ash/maple bolt on neck with a humbucker in the exact spot as the P pickup. Truly a cool bass, amazing for the money.




I've got some clips up on the BSX megathread, and I think the Velvet thread as well, but to state it again, it makes the bass sound even closer to a real URB than it did with steel strings. Garbos have a gut-like feel and response, but with more sustain and pitch clarity, and with none of the tuning issues.

I'll have to check out those clips. I have heard alot about the garbos, but never tried them out myself.
 
After reading Sundogue's topic i decided to give d'addario chromes a try.
I bought a 5 strings pack and i mounted them on my Ibanez BTB, replacing the set of prosteel that were on the bass.
WOW!
Seriuosly:WOW

What a sound! Big, loud, punchy basses, always well defined. I rediscoverd the meaning of "bass" sound.
I never thought that a set of string can modifiy the sound so much.
I think i'll never go back to rounds! Thanks Sundogue for your enlighting thread:)

EDIT: i forgot to mention that i love the feel of flats, and, thanks to theirs tension i succede to setup my bass with an very low action without any buzzing!
 
After reading Sundogue's topic i decided to give d'addario chromes a try.
I bought a 5 strings pack and i mounted them on my Ibanez BTB, replacing the set of prosteel that were on the bass.
WOW!
Seriuosly:WOW

What a sound! Big, loud, punchy basses, always well defined. I rediscoverd the meaning of "bass" sound.
I never thought that a set of string can modifiy the sound so much.
I think i'll never go back to rounds! Thanks Sundogue for your enlighting thread:)

EDIT: i forgot to mention that i love the feel of flats, and, thanks to theirs tension i succede to setup my bass with an very low action without any buzzing!

Of course all things are individual, and will definetly vary from bass to bass, but I didn't care for the chromes on my Sadowsky, the TI flats sounded much better. Congrats though on finding the beauty of flats, just wait until you hear them in the band context.
 
After hearing Sundogue rave about his set of D'Addario Chromes for his five, I was curious to compare them to my current set of Sadowsky flats, strung on my NYC PJ5 (ash/maple). I'm in love......Much more highs and mids right out of the package compared to the Sadowsky's, and to me the B string is a LOT clearer and tighter in feel. I am NOT a fan of the tapercore design on flatwounds. The Chrome B has more meat over the saddle and sounds fatter, IMO.

Feel wise, it seems that the Chromes are much smoother and sleeker feeling, and less grabby than the Sadowskys. I hope this continues and I'll be sure to wipe them down after each use. Slapwise, again the Chromes get the edge right out of the package. VERY punchy and bright sounding if needed. The Sadowskys have a more oldschool Motown vibe, but I'm sure the Chromes will be able to mimic that in a few weeks after being broken in.
 
After hearing Sundogue rave about his set of D'Addario Chromes for his five, I was curious to compare them to my current set of Sadowsky flats, strung on my NYC PJ5 (ash/maple). I'm in love......Much more highs and mids right out of the package compared to the Sadowsky's, and to me the B string is a LOT clearer and tighter in feel. I am NOT a fan of the tapercore design on flatwounds. The Chrome B has more meat over the saddle and sounds fatter, IMO.

Feel wise, it seems that the Chromes are much smoother and sleeker feeling, and less grabby than the Sadowskys. I hope this continues and I'll be sure to wipe them down after each use. Slapwise, again the Chromes get the edge right out of the package. VERY punchy and bright sounding if needed. The Sadowskys have a more oldschool Motown vibe, but I'm sure the Chromes will be able to mimic that in a few weeks after being broken in.

It will take more than a week to "break in" and even after they do they still are very bright for flats. I've had mine on for almost a year and a half and they are still bright sounding.

By that I don't mean bright for a flat either. What I love most about the Chromes is that even after a year or more of playing the same set, they are brighter sounding than two week old rounds. I would have gone through 7 sets of rounds in the time I've been playing these Chromes. And even at that, the rounds would have lost their "roundwound" appeal long before I would have changed them.

And yes, that low B is solid and tight sounding isn't it?

Unless I break them (which I doubt) I don't foresee ever changing them.
 
Guys,

I'm mostly a lurker on this forum, but have learned a lot from all of your expertise, thanks everyone. Still a newbie on bass, though.

I have a quick question... can regular long scale flatwounds, such as D'Addario ECB81 Chromes, fit a Ernie Ball Musicman Stingray?

Or should I get the Super Long Scale version?

Thanks for any help you can give!

C
 
Guys,

I'm mostly a lurker on this forum, but have learned a lot from all of your expertise, thanks everyone. Still a newbie on bass, though.

I have a quick question... can regular long scale flatwounds, such as D'Addario ECB81 Chromes, fit a Ernie Ball Musicman Stingray?

Or should I get the Super Long Scale version?

Thanks for any help you can give!

C


ECB81's are what I had on my Stingray. Perfect fit.
 
By that I don't mean bright for a flat either. What I love most about the Chromes is that even after a year or more of playing the same set, they are brighter sounding than two week old rounds. I would have gone through 7 sets of rounds in the time I've been playing these Chromes. And even at that, the rounds would have lost their "roundwound" appeal long before I would have changed them.
I agree with this for some individuals. A set of hi-beams can last me a month pretty easily, maybe two. I have a friend though that will kill the strings on my bass if he just picks it up for 5 or 10 minnutes. He HAS to use Elixir strings just to keep grease and gunk out of the windings. For folks like that, perhaps Chromes are a good choice if they want to keep a brighter sound for a while. But for me, even when I change my Rounds a month or two later, they are still much brighter than new Chromes. I think Chromes a bright for flats personally.

As for Elixirs, I can usually get 6 months to a year out of them pretty easily if I don't use a pick (which I rarely do). They're still brighter and more brilliant sounding than Chromes, yet have a lot of the fresh zing already removed. I used to really like them, but have quit using them over the last couple of years. For folks who really like rounds but have a hard time keeping them fresh, they are a GREAT choice.
 
+ 1 to the above. I am a person with exceedingly dry hands, so even DR's or SIT's will last me several months and still sound great. The guitar player in my old band would kill his (or my strings until I learned to never let him play my bass) in about 2 hours. Some guys just ooze acid out of their pours...
You can see why I love TI flats, which last forever anyway. I find they keep a certain bite to the tone that I really love, for an eternity.
 
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