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Confused about Glue

Gilmourisgod

Gilmourisgod

Jun 23, 2014
22,468
40,792
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Cape Cod MA
#1
So... I finally used up all my good old Titebond yellow wood glue. Went to the local hardware store, now they have Titebond, Titebond II, Titebond III, and "Ultimate" wood glue. The II and III claim a longer working time and waterproof formula, not sure I need waterproof glue for amateur indoor luthiery, but please school me on this. The longer open time before it grabs might come in handy for stressful glue-ups, but I don't want it skating around on me either. I bought a 16 oz. bottle of the original Titebond, but can always swap it out before I open it. My wife gave me an 8 oz. bottle of the non-foaming Gorilla Wood Glue a couple years ago, that I used precisely once. Went to grab that, and it had turned to a rubbery mass inside the bottle, which is tightly closed from what I can see. A two year shelf life is no good. I know some TB builders use epoxy a lot, but it's expensive and kind of a hassle to use. I have the mini-pump dispensers, but it still tends to make more than I need for small glue-ups, and I'd rather not waste it. I know some old school Luthiers swear by traditional hyde glue or fish glue because it can be un-fastened with heat or steam, but in general I'm looking for a hard, permanent bond. I'm not planning on any set-neck builds, so I can't see a use for animal glues, except maybe for a fingerboard? What say you?
 
#2
Bruce has posted before about his approach to "smaller than pump" doses of epoxy using measuring spoons, and 'glo went there this winter, IIRC. #729

I prefer syringes for small-batch measuring, but then, I have a pile of glue applicator syringes hanging around from my fiber optic project.

I currently use the equivalent (PEP) of West 207, which costs ~twice as much as 205/6 but seems to have no shelf life issues so far, and I've found reports of 207 working fine at 10 years of age. PEP has a 2:1 mix ratio (.vs. West's 5:1) as well as the whackiest website ever.

A number of folks are using the LMII wood glue which seems to be similar to but slightly different from Titebond. I'm pretty sure I have a third of a gallon of Titebond I need to throw out (it's been frozen) somewhere around the shop.

I have a tube (caulking style) of Loctie PL-brand PU glue for building speaker cabs which I fear has turned solid without even being opened as that project got delayed.
 
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#3
Titebond II and III remain a bit more flexible when dry than Titebond I, so I would not recommend those for instrument building.

They do make an extended open time version of Titebond I, which you may like.

Epoxy is probably the best solution, but as you say it's really expensive and a hassle to work with.
 
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#6
I might try the epoxy on the fingerboard, hadn't thought of it inducing backbow. A fingerboard seems to be the one thing on a bass that's most likely to be removed and replaced. Which one is easier to remove with heat later, epoxy or PVC glue like Titebond?
 
#9
T_Bone_TL pretty much covered it for me.

I do most of my gluing with West Systems epoxy, the 105 resin and 205 & 206 hardeners. I do my measuring with small plastic kitchen mixing spoons, which allows me to mix up small batches efficiently. I also keep the Hardeners in plastic squeeze bottles, which lengthens their shelf life.

When I don't want to use epoxy, I like LMII's Yellow Instrument Maker's Glue. It's similar to Titebond I, but a little better formulation for our purposes. In particular, it dries harder, doesn't creep much, and can be sanded. I like it better than Titebond I.

If you want to go with Titebond, use Titebond I, the original formula. Titebond II and III are great glues, but not as well suited for what we do.
 
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#13
Epoxy is too expensive for my taste and often has to be purchased in very large quantities. The only thing I don't like about Titebond is the issue of creep. "Glue line telegraphing (glue-creep) occurs on exposed wood joints as a thin, slightly raised bump along adjacent glued surfaces. "
 
#16
I make furniture and have used all 3. If you a making something that will be used outside in the weather then I always use type 3. If will remain high and dry, I see no reason to use anything other than type 1. I think type 2 is water resistant but has the same curing time as type I. I don't use it as I think type III is just better.
 
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#17
I guess I'm a glue nerd because I have CA glue (thin and gel), plus System III and West Systems epoxy, plus some 3M epoxy in the little kits, and Titebond and other glues, like white glues and PVA glue. The only one I don't use regularly is hide glue. Once you're familiar with their working properties and how those can be best applied to particular tasks, then each has pros and cons that need to be worked with/around.

I like epoxy glue best for gluing thin veneers and multiple laminates. Epoxy has a much longer working time (depending on concoction) and does not slide around as much as titebond. In addition, epoxy doesn't require much pressure on the glue joint for a good join, so it can be more forgiving in that regard. Working with it can be a pain if you're not prepared, but lots of disposable gloves and measuring cups, wax paper covered surfaces, and spreading tools at the ready, and it's pretty even with the titebond mess. Cost is higher, yes, but you can save by purchasing larger quantities if you're planning multiple builds. :)
 
#18
Someone chime in here, but I was under the impression that Titebond II and III didn't release well with heat, so they took a back seat in building and repair. But Titebond I would release and clean up if there was a problem in assembly. Not that I'd know anything about that...
 
#20
Titebond I, as others have indicated. i am a big fan of hide glue myself but it is not good for every situation.

I have used CA to do a multilamiate neck through build 24 years ago, and it worked and has stayed together, but I can't in good conscience recommend it.
 

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