Confused about Glue

[Gilmourisgod]

I like CA in very small doses, I don’t know if I’m unusually sensitive to it, but any more than a brief exposure sets my eyes to burning/running. I can’t imagine doing something like a fretless board in CA without a full-face respirator.

I asked this previously, anybody know which is easier to remove with heat later, if necessary, epoxy or Titebond? Wondering what people use most often to glue down fingerboards. That’s about the only part of a bass I see people un gluing on a regular basis.

 

[mohrds]

I had a bottle of the brown Titebond I use for oak and walnut, but I stupidly let it freeze, now its gone all wonky on me.

I know that food coloring is often added to craft glues, but I'm wondering if it would also work for woodworking glues like Titebond or even Epoxy? I've used food coloring in Titebond-I for small furniture repairs, but never on a musical instrument.
I wonder if the chemicals in the coloring weaken the glue's bond?

 

[mapleglo]

I like CA in very small doses, I don’t know if I’m unusually sensitive to it, but any more than a brief exposure sets my eyes to burning/running. I can’t imagine doing something like a fretless board in CA without a full-face respirator.

I asked this previously, anybody know which is easier to remove with heat later, if necessary, epoxy or Titebond? Wondering what people use most often to glue down fingerboards. That’s about the only part of a bass I see people un gluing on a regular basis.

Titebond would be the glue of choice if you are going to "unglue" it at a later time. I use the West Systems epoxy on everything *except* the fretboard on my builds. Just in case I ever have to remove it at some point.

 

[micguy]

The type of glue you us, in theory, depends on what you're gluing to what, and what you expect to do to it in the future. Honestly, tough, in almost all circumstances, any of the titebonds are probably just fine, with 1 being preferred for joints you might want to undo. Then again, if you're laminating wood to make a body or neck, why would you ever want to undo that? I use 3, but I don't make any joints I'd ever want to undo. I have also used 2 and 1 around the house, for various things - I've never experienced an issue related to glue with any of the things I've done with any of their variations.

 

[4001]

I like Titebond III

 

[mapleglo]

I'll add that I've experienced some darkening when using Titebond with darker woods, such as walnut. The epoxy is clear, so it does not darken the wood like the Titebond. Wiping up the squeeze out immediately after the glue up helps to prevent the darkening, I've found.

 

[TundraMan]

One thing I like about Titebond (or PVA glues in general) is when I do glue-ups I can wipe away the squeeze-out with a damp rag. If I'm dealing with a lot of squeeze-out, like with a neck with lots of laminations, I can keep turning the damp rag around after a section gets saturated with glue. Once the majority is removed I can give it a final rub-down with a clean portion of the damp rag to wipe off any remainder of glue on the surface. That really cuts down on the amount of sanding/scraping I have to do after things cure. Then I rinse out the rag and hang it to dry. It dries a little stiff, but then softens again when I wet it. I can usually reuse the same rag for lots of glue-ups before it reaches the end of its rag life.

It's more hassle to remove the excess squeeze out when dealing with epoxy. A damp rag doesn't work any better than a dry rag, and the rag is pretty much destroyed after one glue-up. Sometimes I'll remove the excess with the edge of the popsicle stick I used to mix the epoxy. In any event, I'm usually left with a lot more dried glue on the surface as compared with PVA glue.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

The trick with epoxy squeeze-out is to let it partially cure until it gets rubbery. Then slide an old chisel under the blops and pop them right off.

Also, if you are doing a repair or something where you have adjacent areas that you don't want to get epoxy squeeze-out on to, wipe them with Johnson's Paste Wax (or similar). In this case, resist the urge to wipe right after clamping. Let the epoxy fully cure, then blops and even little smears will pop right off the waxed areas.

 

[TundraMan]

The trick with epoxy squeeze-out is to let it partially cure until it gets rubbery. Then slide an old chisel under the blops and pop them right off.

Also, if you are doing a repair or something where you have adjacent areas that you don't want to get epoxy squeeze-out on to, wipe them with Johnson's Paste Wax (or similar). In this case, resist the urge to wipe right after clamping. Let the epoxy fully cure, then blops and even little smears will pop right off the waxed areas.

I've removed the epoxy when it gets rubbery. That works if I'm still in the shop. Being a part-timer, often times I'll do a glue-up and then quit for the day and leave. So by the time I return I've got a hardened mess.

Haven't tried the paste wax tip. Does that interfere with applying any finish later on? I would imagine that you'd have to make sure to remove all of the wax, and if you're dealing with an open grain wood make sure there's none lurking down in the pores.

When dealing with the adjacent areas I've often run some blue painters tape along the edge of each piece. After I clamp and the glue squeezes out for a couple of minutes I'll scrape the excess epoxy off, then peel the tape off. What's left is generally just a tiny little ridge that is easily sanded flush after curing.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I'll add that I've experienced some darkening when using Titebond with darker woods, such as walnut. The epoxy is clear, so it does not darken the wood like the Titebond. Wiping up the squeeze out immediately after the glue up helps to prevent the darkening, I've found.

What I've experienced is that West Systems will darken light woods like maple or poplar. On necks that I make for Mike Lipe, which are mostly roasted maple with roasted figured maple fingerboards, when I used West Systems to glue the fingerboards on, we were getting thin brown glue lines. So I use the LMI glue for the fingerboard joint, although I still use West Systems to put in the truss rods. The LMI Yellow Instrument Makers Glue is completely clear, with any wood.

West Systems works great with walnut, in adhesive strength and color. The slight browning is nearly invisible in walnut lamination seams.

 

[Means2nEnd]

I had West Systems leach under tape into a few pre cut fret slots. I let it cure for about 12 hours and with a heated by candle my fret slot cleaner took it right out cleanly. It got soft and was like playdough. I use it to glue fingerboards on because it doesn't introduce water and I am pretty certain with heat and some finagling with knives for removing acoustic bridges and bracing it would come off. Just a hunch but that epoxy was cured pretty much all the way and I was scared at first but it was like melted cheese.

Last night I posted a long blah blah about Titebond and some other glues as one of my peers I buy some CNC'd parts from worked for the company that owns Titebond and he was as well versed about how they all work as anyone could be. I kept reading my own post after I threw it up and it sounded so preachy I deleted it I do that often.

I read most of all the content here on LC but when I post something and read my own I think geeze what a dork...

 

[gyancey]

The LMI Yellow Instrument Makers Glue is completely clear, with any wood.

I used the older LMI White glue until they discontinued it and recently tried the Yellow glue and it was not my experience that it dried clear. When gluing some porous woods (walnut and wenge in my case) hydraulic pressure pushed the glue into the pores/tubes and was visible pretty far from the glue line even after planing. That's probably a sign that I used too much glue, so perhaps I need to dial it back with this stuff.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I used the older LMI White glue until they discontinued it and recently tried the Yellow glue and it was not my experience that it dried clear. When gluing some porous woods (walnut and wenge in my case) hydraulic pressure pushed the glue into the pores/tubes and was visible pretty far from the glue line even after planing. That's probably a sign that I used too much glue, so perhaps I need to dial it back with this stuff.

Okay, I mostly use it gluing maple to maple, or a dark wood to maple. In those cases, it appears clear to me. When I glue dark woods to dark woods, like walnut to walnut, I generally use epoxy. It may be that you get a whitish line from LMI glue between dark woods.

 

[Fernandous]

So... I finally used up all my good old Titebond yellow wood glue. Went to the local hardware store, now they have Titebond, Titebond II, Titebond III, and "Ultimate" wood glue. The II and III claim a longer working time and waterproof formula, not sure I need waterproof glue for amateur indoor luthiery, but please school me on this. The longer open time before it grabs might come in handy for stressful glue-ups, but I don't want it skating around on me either. I bought a 16 oz. bottle of the original Titebond, but can always swap it out before I open it. My wife gave me an 8 oz. bottle of the non-foaming Gorilla Wood Glue a couple years ago, that I used precisely once. Went to grab that, and it had turned to a rubbery mass inside the bottle, which is tightly closed from what I can see. A two year shelf life is no good. I know some TB builders use epoxy a lot, but it's expensive and kind of a hassle to use. I have the mini-pump dispensers, but it still tends to make more than I need for small glue-ups, and I'd rather not waste it. I know some old school Luthiers swear by traditional hyde glue or fish glue because it can be un-fastened with heat or steam, but in general I'm looking for a hard, permanent bond. I'm not planning on any set-neck builds, so I can't see a use for animal glues, except maybe for a fingerboard? What say you?

 

[Fernandous]

Such a very informative discussion about glue.

 

[tjclem]

Very cool read

 

[RichterScale]

Anyone have experience with and opinions on the titebond liquid hide glue?
Titebond

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Anyone have experience with and opinions on the titebond liquid hide glue?
Titebond

View attachment 4739771

It's a fresh new label, but I think it's the same product they've been selling for 30+ years. I call it Cold Hide Glue. I had a bottle and experimented with it back in the '90's. Not real impressed. It appears to be a hybrid of hide glue and Titebond. About the viscosity of Titebond, but more of a transparent amber color. A nice color to use with dark woods. Much slower setting and curing than Titebond 1. Like 3 hours set/24 hours cure. It's thick enough that it only sinks into the wood about like Titebond; not as much as hot hide glue. It probably can be heated and unglued about like Titebond.

It seemed to me that the only advantage to it was that it was more invisible on darker woods, where you might see it. Like craft work gluing fabric to wood. I didn't see any use for it on instruments.

Unless you want to gain the approval of your Acoustic Guitar Building Friends by claiming that you used Hide Glue. I'm shunned by that crowd because I have the nerve to use epoxy.

 

[byacey]

Anyone have experience with and opinions on the titebond liquid hide glue?
Titebond

View attachment 4739771

Do not use this! As time goes on, it becomes hygroscopic and your instrument will self destruct. These issues have been well documented by violin makers.

 

[JParsons]

Anyone have experience with and opinions on the titebond liquid hide glue?
Titebond

View attachment 4739771

I’ve not used that one based on the reviews, but I do like Old Brown Glue, which is liquid hide glue.

It does work similar to titebond, although you do have to move a bit faster. I keep mine in a wax warmer to make it a bit more viscous, and because it’ll turn solid in the cooler winter temps here.

I like it because it sets glass hard and cleans up easily. Smells a bit though.