Considering a Rickenbacker 4003

[bobyoung53]

Perhaps one reason the 4004 was not widely adopted is the relatively high cost of Rickenbackers in general.

They cost about the same as any good American Fender and Rics are all made in the USA.

 

[Giffro]

I find that I like the tone of my 2001 EBMM Sterling 4H with roundwounds a bit better than the Rick anyhow for aggressive rock or jazz tones and it also is much more suited for slap style.

The best of both worlds hey selowitch

 

[bobyoung53]

@mapleglo
You should know as well as anyone that I LOVE Rics, and pointing out design flaws isn't "bashing", it's pointing out the obvious. I believe you included volutes on your Ric clone builds for the same exact reason, correct? I love how a volute looks, but I didnt do all that work just for aesthetics alone. Here's the problem inherent to Rics and Gibsons:
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And here's the soution. If Ric and Gibson were some cheesy Indonesian brand that didn't know any better, I'd cut them some slack, but they arent, and they DO know better:
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Well again I have never heard of a broken off Rickenbacker headstock except from you today so the lack of a volute is not a design flaw if it is not needed and a broken Ric headstock is not at all common.

 

[bobyoung53]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience with having your Ric refretted.

I'd tend to blame the person who worked on it, not the bass. I had my 4001 refretted, you have to put on your glasses and get close to see any traces of the work.

Of course, it wasn't cheap. It was done by the late, great Mike Lull, and he took time to explain in detail what was involved and why it cost what it did. It does take someone of his skill level to do it right, but it can be done.

I have a Ric 4001 that was refretted before I bought it years ago and you can't tell by looking at it closely except that the neck varnish was taken off (which I like) and the binding doesn't quite cover up the fret ends and the frets are bigger than stock (which I don't like so much). The fretboard is perfect.

 

[Manticore]

The real problem with the binding though, is at the fretboard. If you ever need to refret the bass there's virtually no way to do it without tearing the hell out of the binding. Typically you'll see the new frets simply smashed in there with the edges covering up the chewed-up binding.L

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you relative to the binding on the neck. My early '70s Ric has been refretted twice and one would never know to look at it. It sounds like what you've experienced is work done by someone that either doesn't know how to do it properly, or doesn't care. (In the name of full disclosure, I've been using the same excellent tech to tend to my basses for decades.) The body binding on the forearm is a curiosity to me as well as it never really occurred to me that anyone would have a problem with it; it is constantly reported, so it must be a thing, just not for me.

 

[thisheregiraffe]

Ordered from Long & McQuades January 2020 with expected 12 month wait. Four months later this arrives. Sporting the newly redesigned bridge. I’m smitten. Marc

You are lucky man. I ordered a Fireglo 4003 from Long & McQuade in October and I am still waiting for it.

My guess: L&M already had a stock order open with Rickenbacker for some 4003 Jetglos already when Moosehead ordered his in January, so he didn't have to wait as long because an order had already been in the pipeline. If you're not dead-set on Fireglo, they have some 4003 Mapleglos showing in stock online, maybe you can change your order.

 

[farace]

Perhaps one reason the 4004 was not widely adopted is the relatively high cost of Rickenbackers in general.

By itself, I don’t think that’s a reason, since people continue to buy 4003 models. But together with the fact that most will be disinclined to pay that without getting a chance to try them first, then yes, that would factor in.

It was a sort of Catch-22 situation where shops weren’t going to order what isn’t selling, but sales were not going to pick up if there weren’t any in the shops. Something needed to break that cycle, but nothing did.

 

[Willie5String]

I have never owned a Rick before, but the price on this one seems attractive at $1,350.00:

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The condition seems good, not sure about fretwear. I know I like the sound of Ricks but I am little hesistant about the truss rod system, bridge, and ergonomics.

That’s a nice looking guitar, I had a midnight blue one that I sold after wanting one for years, just did not bond with it, horribly uncomfortable to play

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I make necks with volutes because I like how they look and feel. Though any neck is subject to breaking if enough force is applied, and a volute adds strength, especially to any neck with a truss rod.

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The best solution seems to be a scarf joint, it's stronger than either a volute or a single-board Fender style continuous grain design. Of course you can break any headstock, by why make it easy with simple bad woodworking? I have yet to try my hand at a scarf joint, might do that next build. Some people don't like how they look, but I suppose it could become a design feature with some exotic woods or dyed veneers. If I come off as a Ric-Basher, you have the wrong impression. I friggin' HATE iTunes, for instance, but othwerwise love my iPhone. Hell, my favorite car of all time is the Jaguar E-Type, perhaps the least reliable, rust-prone disaster of a car ever mass produced, and also IMO the single most beautiful car ever designed. I'd put up with the rust to drive one anyday, go figure. My first bass was a 78' 4001. I used to set it up on its stand at night so it was the first thing I'd see when I woke up. Sick, huh? God, how I loved that bass. The Hossenfeffer was my attempt to re-create it, minus the flaws.

 

[Ric5]

^^^^What he said, I never undestood why the 4004 didn't take off, though I will say I literally NEVER, not EVER saw one for sale in a store ANYWHERE. I have NEVER seen one in person. If you can't play it, you probably arent going to buy it. I think @Ric5 is right, the new 5 string seems to address all the problems noted, except for that pesky extra string! I still don't love the "Dorito" pups aesthetically, but you can't argue with the tone. They sound great. I'm hoping they (or somebody else) comes up with a chrome pup ring for those, that would be more in keeping with the other chrome hardware. I think it's safe to say that the current production Rics are overall better made then their predecessors, now if they could just fix that flaking finish problem......meh. Get a W model.

The Biggest problem with the 4004 is the wiring and the pickups. Put in 2 single coil pickups and wire it like a 4003 and they would have sold like hotcakes.

I own 2 Rickenbacker Basses. Both are 4004s. Both got new pickups and new wiring, both sound like a 4001/4003 bass

The stock pickups and stock wiring were pretty 2 dimensional … 1 toggle, 1 volume, and 1 tone … there was no way to blend the pickups … A lot of people rewired the 4004 like a jazz bass VVT.

 

[Robert Darby]

I have never owned a Rick before, but the price on this one seems attractive at $1,350.00:

View attachment 3854679

The condition seems good, not sure about fretwear. I know I like the sound of Ricks but I am little hesistant about the truss rod system, bridge, and ergonomics.

I am a first time Ric owner. I just got a 2020 4003 Jetglo a few weeks ago. It played great right out of the box. I put some flats on her so the action was even lower again no issues or buzz. I love mine. The only things is that binding issue on the forearm but its not a deal breaker for me. I was a little worried at first I bought it online and never tried a ric before. I loved it so much I just bought a 2020 4003sw. I just had to have a walnut. You may want to be sure it has the newer bridge design. Both of my rics have the new design. Rickenbacker seems to be using the newer design going forward. There are a lot of new rics out there with the older bridge though. My 4003 Jetglo neck is pretty much dead flat with low action and plays like a dream.

 

[luciens]

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you relative to the binding on the neck. My early '70s Ric has been refretted twice and one would never know to look at it. It sounds like what you've experienced is work done by someone that either doesn't know how to do it properly, or doesn't care. (In the name of full disclosure, I've been using the same excellent tech to tend to my basses for decades.) The body binding on the forearm is a curiosity to me as well as it never really occurred to me that anyone would have a problem with it; it is constantly reported, so it must be a thing, just not for me.

I've not yet seen a refret done on a bound neck that wasn't a disaster on the binding, but maybe I'm wrong and it can be done. OTOH, the words of Leo Fender echo in my head: "A quality instrument is easy to repair"... and binding on the edges of the fretboard, well....... So I'd still opt for a 4003s if I were to get another rickenbacker. I just think it looks better without the binding anyway.

As for the sharp edge of the binding on the body, when I was gigging I sanded the edge down in that area where my arm usually was. I was able to round it off quite a bit without it hardly even being visible. If you look up close you could see it, of course.

That was when I was gigging though and my 4001 was hanging on my shoulder for long periods of time. I didn't sand my later 4003's I kept after my gigging days began to wind down. And of course I don't recommend that on a current 4003 for sure .

L

 

[luciens]

Well again I have never heard of a broken off Rickenbacker headstock except from you today so the lack of a volute is not a design flaw if it is not needed and a broken Ric headstock is not at all common.

I've seen a glued-back-on rickenbacker headstock, but I also agree that the fragile headstock thing is kind of overblown. If you look at the butt-end of the headstock on the underneath of the neck, it's shaped in such a way that there's a fair bit of wood around the cutout for the truss rods.

It's kind of fugly, and feels a bit weird at first when you're playing down in first position, but I think the 4003 headstock is still plenty strong. The glued-on one that I saw was the only one I've ever seen, and the report was the bass went flying, not just a tipover, and at a drunken gig too, and that's how it got broken off..... That's what the guy said anyway......

L

 

[woodyng2]

If you want a simpler, but less noisy and boomier model, the 4004 is great. Had mine for 10 years, and it will be my wife’s problem when I go.

I’m always up for seeing pictures of 4004s if you wanna post one of yours.
I love my quartet!

 

[jeff7bass]

If it's in good condition, the price is right. RICS don't seem to lose value. GC gave me 1300 for my 4001 and sold it a week later for 2100.

 

[jeff7bass]

I’m always up for seeing pictures of 4004s if you wanna post one of yours.
I love my quartet!
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You're like a Sheik with a lovely Harem!

 

[luciens]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience with having your Ric refretted.

I'd tend to blame the person who worked on it, not the bass. I had my 4001 refretted, you have to put on your glasses and get close to see any traces of the work.

Of course, it wasn't cheap. It was done by the late, great Mike Lull, and he took time to explain in detail what was involved and why it cost what it did. It does take someone of his skill level to do it right, but it can be done.

Mine wasn't the only awful one I saw. And not everyone can get their bass redone by Mike Lull either .

BTW, I hope guys aren't thinking I'm hating on the rickenbacker; far from it, I love the 4003 and hope to get another one one day. It's a classic and does have good design in it along with the bad - it was one of the first popular neck-throughs and so didn't have some of the drawbacks of bolt neck basses like the Fender, etc. It's always been made out of good wood and is very stable once you set it up. And it's got that signature tone....

L

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I've not yet seen a refret done on a bound neck that wasn't a disaster on the binding, but maybe I'm wrong and it can be done. OTOH, the words of Leo Fender echo in my head: "A quality instrument is easy to repair"... and binding on the edges of the fretboard, well....... So I'd still opt for a 4003s if I were to get another rickenbacker. I just think it looks better without the binding anyway.

As for the sharp edge of the binding on the body, when I was gigging I sanded the edge down in that area where my arm usually was. I was able to round it off quite a bit without it hardly even being visible. If you look up close you could see it, of course.

That was when I was gigging though and my 4001 was hanging on my shoulder for long periods of time. I didn't sand my later 4003's I kept after my gigging days began to wind down. And of course I don't recommend that on a current 4003 for sure .

L

The binding itself isn't the problem for refret, you don't have to touch it on most basses. Rics and Gibson Les Pauls have "nibs" that come up over the fret ends. Gibson does it with a cutter setup, but the average repair person would probably do it by hand. The hacky way to refret a Ric or Les Paul is to just grind the fret end nibs off, so the frets overlay the binding edge. I chose to dispense with the nibs on my builds because Im a Chicken, but If I was a REAL man (or woman) I guess I would have done them. I don't think its possible to save the nibs during refret, but maybe somebody really skilled could pull it off. It's a real issue on Vintage Les Pauls, if its old and crumbly celluloid, it probably wont survive, in which case you have to age the binding to look old. Its not that hard to remove the binding, but scraping each space between frets and flushing up and polishing the Nibs is a lot of work!


And here's what the rest of us do instead:

 

[Manticore]

I've not yet seen a refret done on a bound neck that wasn't a disaster on the binding, but maybe I'm wrong and it can be done. OTOH, the words of Leo Fender echo in my head: "A quality instrument is easy to repair"... and binding on the edges of the fretboard, well....... So I'd still opt for a 4003s if I were to get another rickenbacker. I just think it looks better without the binding anyway.

As for the sharp edge of the binding on the body, when I was gigging I sanded the edge down in that area where my arm usually was. I was able to round it off quite a bit without it hardly even being visible. If you look up close you could see it, of course.

That was when I was gigging though and my 4001 was hanging on my shoulder for long periods of time. I didn't sand my later 4003's I kept after my gigging days began to wind down. And of course I don't recommend that on a current 4003 for sure .

L

I honestly don't know how my tech replaces frets without harming the binding, but he does a wonderful job. (I wish the frets on a Ric were either a little harder, a little taller, or both.)

Gigs were plentiful and well-paying from when I started in the early '70s up until about 10-15 years ago. I used my first Ric three to fiver nights a week, four to five sets a night for almost 20 years, from about '74 through '92 when I bought an Alembic ...enough to need to have it refretted a couple of times. My arm rounded the top of the lower bout slightly with thousands of hours of use, but I never really noticed it as uncomfortable. Again, these are personal experiences, and the discomfort is often cited, so i'm sure it is quite uncomfortable for some.

 

[Root 5]

I have two 4003s and here's my take:
1) You will need to have the nut slots lowered; the string action is too high out of the factory.
2) The bridge doesn't adjust low enough in my opinion.
3) The truss rods are no big deal to adjust but you need special thin-wall wrenches. I gently clamp my necks into straightness ( with rods loose first!)
4) Nothing else sounds like a Ric. They have an awesome throaty, ballsy, grindy tone. And can warm up nicely if you want that.
4a) the cover over the bridge pickup is in the way.
5) They're gorgeous. You want one. You need it. They're a classic bass guitar.

* Older 4000 series basses had a reputation for soft frets. They were. They used 12% nickel silver fretwire and strings like stainless steel Rotosund 66s ate them alive. Today they use harder wire.