Really -- please tell us more ... compare and contrast their pizz and arco response to say -- Spirocore, Kaplan, BelCanto and anything else you've tried.
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Double Bass Considering Orchestra String Choices-again!
- Thread starter BHBassist
- Start date
I know that pirastro OG Flat Chromes (not flat chrome steel) have a following amongst orchestra players. Not sure if they are a good hybrid string? I've always wanted to try them.
Well, you're not asking for much, are you?
TL;DR...DISCLAIMER: I'm a good musician, but I'm really not that good a bassist, so you can judge my remarks accordingly!
In regards to pizzicato, all I have to say is: They're orchestral strings, little sustain, nice "blunt" pluck. So, good orchestral pizzicato. I'm sure they'd work fine for other applications, if that's your taste. I'd guess most pluckers would prefer something different.
Arco:
Okay. Mine is a German shop bass, E.H. Roth from 1957. A slightly-smallish 3/4 size. Set up well. I play with a German hold, black hair, and the Leatherwood BASS rosin; I get a pretty grippy sound. When I got the bass, it was strung with Evah Pirazzi weich. Good strings, as we know, but the previous owner was more into jazz, and I wanted a bass dedicated to classical music.
It's a little bit "tale of two basses." Pretty even sounding across the lower three strings but most G strings sound a little "thin" on it. That might be because it's a solid bridge, and a millimeter or two more of clearance might help ... don't know. Other than expected wolfiness of the D string at the neck heel, things are very good with E/A/D strings.
For most of the Spring and Summer, I had Tempera Bassos on this bass. Fine strings. But in preparing for an audition, I was having trouble with an excerpt from Beethoven 3; 8th-note arpeggios on the lower strings, getting the notes to speak quickly and crisply. That's when I, one at a time, replaced them with other strings from my "drawer."
I noticed that those arpeggios sounded better (technique-wise) on my "jazz" bass, which has Superflexible solo E and A strings. So, I tried those. No joy. I put on the trusty old Spiro weich E. Yeah, lots of pop and power... but that machine-gun sound. So, Original Flat Chrome. The E demands some authority compared to the Spiro, but it gives back whatever it gets. The A is perfect IMO.
I have a lightly-used Kaplan medium set, as well as some Bel Canto singles. I didn't try those. They're good strings, but not very powerful and without much tonal coloration. I'm looking for that kind of pleasing coloration that expensive large-ribbon mics can give, rather than a completely-honest this-is-my-bass sound. And Kaplans and Bel Cantos - in my experience - don't always stand up to heavy strokes, especially when you can't raise the bridge.
I also have some Flexocors (92). Great strings. But the OFCs just have a little more of that sonic color that I like.
The Passione G (stark) provides a thicker sound than others I've tried (Innovation Braided, Original Flat Chrome, Flexocor, EPi weich). Meatier than all of those, all the way into thumb, and the open string is free of those hated false harmonics unless I really try to make them. (The Innovation 140B was the runner-up.)
I liked the Passione G so much that I decided to try the D. Stark was too tense; mittel was not tense enough. The OFC went back on.
Take it with a grain of salt, of course, but I have thisLink Removed page from Quantum Bass Center bookmarked. A nice string matrix, some useful info, and nice things to say about the Original Flat Chrome.
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On my basses the Perpetuals really work fine as Hybrid Strings... especially the "Stark"-version of the G and D string sound "darker" and fuller... and there is a full Stark set in between, but I didn't check it out yet...another option for real good hybrid strings might be the Tempera Hybrid Set or a set of Helix strings made by Gerold Genssler... I will check this out on my instruments next...
or a set of Helix strings made by Gerold Genssler... I will check this out on my instruments next...
I think if you are more arco focused the Basso from Sonores would work better than Helix.
A bit more tension than the Helix and smooth windings. A little smoother sound too.
Thank you so much for this update. I knew you were working with Tempera Bassos, so hearing your issues with orchestra strokes and your move back to OFC's is very valuable info. I too have had positive experiences with the Passione Stark G-string. My bass is a small 3/4 with a 41.25" mensure.Well, you're not asking for much, are you?
DISCLAIMER: I'm a good musician, but I'm really not that good a bassist, so you can judge my remarks accordingly!
In regards to pizzicato, all I have to say is: They're orchestral strings, little sustain, nice "blunt" pluck. So, good orchestral pizzicato. I'm sure they'd work fine for other applications, if that's your taste. I'd guess most pluckers would prefer something different.
Arco:
Okay. Mine is a German shop bass, E.H. Roth from 1957. A slightly-smallish 3/4 size. Set up well. I play with a German hold, black hair, and the Leatherwood BASS rosin; I get a pretty grippy sound. When I got the bass, it was strung with Evah Pirazzi weich. Good strings, as we know, but the previous owner was more into jazz, and I wanted a bass dedicated to classical music.
It's a little bit "tale of two basses." Pretty even sounding across the lower three strings but most G strings sound a little "thin" on it. That might be because it's a solid bridge, and a millimeter or two more of clearance might help ... don't know. Other than expected wolfiness of the D string at the neck heel, things are very good with E/A/D strings.
For most of the Spring and Summer, I had Tempera Bassos on this bass. Fine strings. But in preparing for an audition, I was having trouble with an excerpt from Beethoven 3; 8th-note arpeggios on the lower strings, getting the notes to speak quickly and crisply. That's when I, one at a time, replaced them with other strings from my "drawer."
I noticed that those arpeggios sounded better (technique-wise) on my "jazz" bass, which has Superflexible solo E and A strings. So, I tried those. No joy. I put on the trusty old Spiro weich E. Yeah, lots of pop and power... but that machine-gun sound. So, Original Flat Chrome. The E demands some authority compared to the Spiro, but it gives back whatever it gets. The A is perfect IMO.
I have a lightly-used Kaplan medium set, as well as some Bel Canto singles. I didn't try those. They're good strings, but not very powerful and without much tonal coloration. I'm looking for that kind of pleasing coloration that expensive large-ribbon mics can give, rather than a completely-honest this-is-my-bass sound. And Kaplans and Bel Cantos - in my experience - don't always stand up to heavy strokes, especially when you can't raise the bridge.
I also have some Flexocors (92). Great strings. But the OFCs just have a little more of that sonic color that I like.
The Passione G (stark) provides a thicker sound than others I've tried (Innovation Braided, Original Flat Chrome, Flexocor, EPi weich). Meatier than all of those, all the way into thumb, and the open string is free of those hated false harmonics unless I really try to make them. (The Innovation 140B was the runner-up.)
I liked the Passione G so much that I decided to try the D. Stark was too tense; mittel was not tense enough. The OFC went back on.
Take it with a grain of salt, of course, but I have thisLink Removed page from Quantum Bass Center bookmarked. A nice string matrix, some useful info, and nice things to say about the Original Flat Chrome.
Currently, since July, and now going into the season opener of my orchestra, and a run of Annie Get Your Gun shows at my local theater next month, my bass is wearing an old but full set of Spirocore 3885W. Before these, I had my old set of Evah Pirazzi weich. The reason I switched back, or switched away from EPW's, was because my bow strokes were too mushy on the EPW's. And as for pizz on the EPW's: solo in my studio space they sounded apparently fine, but when I recorded some jazz in a mix, my bass tone and articulation seem to get lost. Which both issues are what prompted me too switch away from EPW's.
I love Kaplan mediums on my bass for orchestra, but there's something about these 3885W Spiros that are compelling for my orchestra strokes AND as well as them being great for jazz pizz and recording.
I guess what I am saying is that spiros can be a great hybrid string, which is what the OP was looking for. I think a different G-string, such as passione stark, or perhaps even S42 stark G, would be awesome over the 3885W E/A/D.
Hello again stefani. Don’t know any Bassists that use them but will check them out online.
Thanks.
AG-Thank you for that detailed and helpful description of your Bass/Strings & the Quantam BC String page link!Well, you're not asking for much, are you?
DISCLAIMER: I'm a good musician, but I'm really not that good a bassist, so you can judge my remarks accordingly!
In regards to pizzicato, all I have to say is: They're orchestral strings, little sustain, nice "blunt" pluck. So, good orchestral pizzicato. I'm sure they'd work fine for other applications, if that's your taste. I'd guess most pluckers would prefer something different.
Arco:
Okay. Mine is a German shop bass, E.H. Roth from 1957. A slightly-smallish 3/4 size. Set up well. I play with a German hold, black hair, and the Leatherwood BASS rosin; I get a pretty grippy sound. When I got the bass, it was strung with Evah Pirazzi weich. Good strings, as we know, but the previous owner was more into jazz, and I wanted a bass dedicated to classical music.
It's a little bit "tale of two basses." Pretty even sounding across the lower three strings but most G strings sound a little "thin" on it. That might be because it's a solid bridge, and a millimeter or two more of clearance might help ... don't know. Other than expected wolfiness of the D string at the neck heel, things are very good with E/A/D strings.
For most of the Spring and Summer, I had Tempera Bassos on this bass. Fine strings. But in preparing for an audition, I was having trouble with an excerpt from Beethoven 3; 8th-note arpeggios on the lower strings, getting the notes to speak quickly and crisply. That's when I, one at a time, replaced them with other strings from my "drawer."
I noticed that those arpeggios sounded better (technique-wise) on my "jazz" bass, which has Superflexible solo E and A strings. So, I tried those. No joy. I put on the trusty old Spiro weich E. Yeah, lots of pop and power... but that machine-gun sound. So, Original Flat Chrome. The E demands some authority compared to the Spiro, but it gives back whatever it gets. The A is perfect IMO.
I have a lightly-used Kaplan medium set, as well as some Bel Canto singles. I didn't try those. They're good strings, but not very powerful and without much tonal coloration. I'm looking for that kind of pleasing coloration that expensive large-ribbon mics can give, rather than a completely-honest this-is-my-bass sound. And Kaplans and Bel Cantos - in my experience - don't always stand up to heavy strokes, especially when you can't raise the bridge.
I also have some Flexocors (92). Great strings. But the OFCs just have a little more of that sonic color that I like.
The Passione G (stark) provides a thicker sound than others I've tried (Innovation Braided, Original Flat Chrome, Flexocor, EPi weich). Meatier than all of those, all the way into thumb, and the open string is free of those hated false harmonics unless I really try to make them. (The Innovation 140B was the runner-up.)
I liked the Passione G so much that I decided to try the D. Stark was too tense; mittel was not tense enough. The OFC went back on.
Take it with a grain of salt, of course, but I have thisLink Removed page from Quantum Bass Center bookmarked. A nice string matrix, some useful info, and nice things to say about the Original Flat Chrome.
It sounds like you know exactly what I’m asking about. Love and can relate to the Condeser microphone reference-have done lots of recordings at home & in Recording studios.
I also play German Bow, have several-most with Black or Salt/Pepper Hair and a few different Rosins ( Carlson, Nyman,Kolstein, Upton). A stand partner had Leatherwood years back but never tried it, and recently tried another’s Weidoeft-which gripped the strings and felt great on his old Bass strung with Perpetual Strings-sounded great, and bowed “faster and easier” than my EPs and not bright sounding at all.
He thought his setup was tighter than mine after he asked to try my Bass.
This morning in my practice routine I played along to a recent London Symphony YouTube Video Beethoven’s 9th 4th Mvt then Bach Concerto No. 2, and just returned after playing a almost straight 2 1/2 hour Jazz Concert with a Piano Trio. Both Basses have EP Mediums, string height is up high enough for orchestral bowing -both sound good full & even in all registers, however…
You mentioned getting the apreggios to speak-etc., which is part of my own concern: fast passages, string crossings that sometimes don’t seem as strong and clear as they could and should be and making me unsure if the set up is or strings should be changed.
I’ll see what tomorrow’s practice brings.
Thanks again.
Coming from EP too and changing for similar reasons I stayed at the Tempera Strings... it seems as always to depend a lot from the instrument and the player... by the way... I use the Temperas also for pizz in jazz environments, if I want to receive a more "old-fashioned, gut-like" sound...but changing the setup was a "must", when the temperas were mounted..
Hello LaFaro. Another mention of a different ‘Setup’ which I hadn’t considered ( just had new strings installed/setup in a few months back)until a symphony Bassist stand partner tried my Bass and thought it played too easily compared to his with Perpetuals.
I’ll be bringing my Bass in soon…
Recall reading about Tempera Strings but never saw them on a Bass or know any Bassists that use them.
I’m used to the Medium EPs but a couple of Bassists that sit in on my Jazz Gigs with my Bass tell me they’re stiff compared to their Spiros.
Thank you.
I’ll be bringing my Bass in soon…
Recall reading about Tempera Strings but never saw them on a Bass or know any Bassists that use them.
I’m used to the Medium EPs but a couple of Bassists that sit in on my Jazz Gigs with my Bass tell me they’re stiff compared to their Spiros.
Thank you.
Thanks LaFaro.(Scott...?!) Yes-I know that "Gear in not the answer!",but I've been searching for the 'answer' too long-lately have just been practicing more to actually learn the music before jumping to the next string or variable...On my basses the Perpetuals really work fine as Hybrid Strings... especially the "Stark"-version of the G and D string sound "darker" and fuller... and there is a full Stark set in between, but I didn't check it out yet...another option for real good hybrid strings might be the Tempera Hybrid Set or a set of Helix strings made by Gerold Genssler... I will check this out on my instruments next...
Just saw/heard John Patitucci Sat. play with his Galiano- Perpetual Stark G&D, EPMedium A Spiro C. Amazing!
JP invited me to try his bass after the concert which played and sounded great!!
Tempura....
Hello again AG-Just played through the Beethoven's 3rd 1st MVT again with a Youtube Orch. Never played that with a Symphony but tried it in my Home Studio before today. 16 bars before letter L (!!) Jumping around on the C-Ext. -would lay so easily on a 5-String! (I want one!!)Well, you're not asking for much, are you?
DISCLAIMER: I'm a good musician, but I'm really not that good a bassist, so you can judge my remarks accordingly!
In regards to pizzicato, all I have to say is: They're orchestral strings, little sustain, nice "blunt" pluck. So, good orchestral pizzicato. I'm sure they'd work fine for other applications, if that's your taste. I'd guess most pluckers would prefer something different.
Arco:
Okay. Mine is a German shop bass, E.H. Roth from 1957. A slightly-smallish 3/4 size. Set up well. I play with a German hold, black hair, and the Leatherwood BASS rosin; I get a pretty grippy sound. When I got the bass, it was strung with Evah Pirazzi weich. Good strings, as we know, but the previous owner was more into jazz, and I wanted a bass dedicated to classical music.
It's a little bit "tale of two basses." Pretty even sounding across the lower three strings but most G strings sound a little "thin" on it. That might be because it's a solid bridge, and a millimeter or two more of clearance might help ... don't know. Other than expected wolfiness of the D string at the neck heel, things are very good with E/A/D strings.
For most of the Spring and Summer, I had Tempera Bassos on this bass. Fine strings. But in preparing for an audition, I was having trouble with an excerpt from Beethoven 3; 8th-note arpeggios on the lower strings, getting the notes to speak quickly and crisply. That's when I, one at a time, replaced them with other strings from my "drawer."
I noticed that those arpeggios sounded better (technique-wise) on my "jazz" bass, which has Superflexible solo E and A strings. So, I tried those. No joy. I put on the trusty old Spiro weich E. Yeah, lots of pop and power... but that machine-gun sound. So, Original Flat Chrome. The E demands some authority compared to the Spiro, but it gives back whatever it gets. The A is perfect IMO.
I have a lightly-used Kaplan medium set, as well as some Bel Canto singles. I didn't try those. They're good strings, but not very powerful and without much tonal coloration. I'm looking for that kind of pleasing coloration that expensive large-ribbon mics can give, rather than a completely-honest this-is-my-bass sound. And Kaplans and Bel Cantos - in my experience - don't always stand up to heavy strokes, especially when you can't raise the bridge.
I also have some Flexocors (92). Great strings. But the OFCs just have a little more of that sonic color that I like.
The Passione G (stark) provides a thicker sound than others I've tried (Innovation Braided, Original Flat Chrome, Flexocor, EPi weich). Meatier than all of those, all the way into thumb, and the open string is free of those hated false harmonics unless I really try to make them. (The Innovation 140B was the runner-up.)
I liked the Passione G so much that I decided to try the D. Stark was too tense; mittel was not tense enough. The OFC went back on.
Take it with a grain of salt, of course, but I have thisLink Removed page from Quantum Bass Center bookmarked. A nice string matrix, some useful info, and nice things to say about the Original Flat Chrome.
Great way to start my day after the Bach Orch Suite No. 2!
Hello stefani. Never tried the Temperas but will look into them. FWI Played 'Annie Get your Gun' 4 decades ago(!) fun show-used Spiros at the time, until my Bridge got crunched in a NYC revolving door & the luthier I went to for a repair/new bridge told me my Bass was too bright and should never have Spiros and suggested D'Addario Heliocores, which just came out and were being widely used then.
I had an Artist Endorsement from D'Addario for a minute, tried Zyez and then used Kaplan Heavy Gauge for a couple of years-loved the sound/feel but they started unraveling and had a couple of burrs, which led me to Evahs- Mediums & Weichs.
Some of my friends use Obligatos & lots that used Spiros.
Looking for that magic string/setup and just trying to work smarter not harder with bowing the tough passages.
Have a great show.
Thanks again.
More to think about...
I'm not sure I'd recommend any 3/4 scale heavy gauge strings on your monster 45-3/4" bass. If anything, I'd consider Kaplan med or lights on your bass. The lights are great if your bass has volume to spare. Substitute a Kaplan med G and you might be onto something.
Thanks stefani. Been there with Kaplans-Heavy/Med Gauge unraveled a bit after time & the light had a couple of spurs.
My EPs sounded good today & most always, it’s just that fast bowed passages that I’m wondering about.
Plan to take a Bow to a Bass Shop and see how the response differs-even though they’ll be on different Basses, will know what to look for.
