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Counting off every single song

#42
A couple of our songs have bass lead-ins, no count. A couple have guitar lead-ins, same. One opens with a bombastic drum fill. There is one that gets a 1-2-3-4. Not necessary. A couple of others we just count in with body language.
 
#43
glocke1 said:
Trying to get the people I am currently playing with to break this habit...Every single song they play they start off with a very obvious count-off...they even do this at gigs which to me looks very amateurish.

So far I've suggested a couple of things ranging from segueing into songs (its a jamband, so there is alot of room to play around), to just having the drummer click his sticks instead of someone audibly going "1-2-3-4" for every song..

Even songs that have the bass as an opening line they insist on me counting off before I start the tune with the bass line... :spit:

Granted, it has been a couple of years since I have played in an organized project, but I don't every remember anyone counting as much as these guys do...(and yes this is the same band I posted about getting kicked out of last week, they asked me back to play a couple of gigs with them)>
Click to expand...

:rollno:

MM
 
#44
Don't get me started on this one!

I don't mind how a tune's counted in - 1234, sticks, whatever - as long as it's done right (and yes, preferably a bit discreetly if that's what you're after, but there's nothing amateurish about any count in as long as it's done properly, imo).

The count in is to establish where the start of the tune is (the double bar line, if you like) and also to set the tempo. It needs to be clearly communicated either audibly or visibly to all members of the band, especially those coming in at the start, and it needs to be precise and unambiguous, especially if you have subs in the band that aren't familiar with how the band handles the start of the tune. It's amazing how bad some musicians are at this simple task and it drives me crazy at times. You can sometimes hear bands play tunes where they take about 3 or 4 bars (or more) to really get locked tight and then after that they're okay. Very amateurish and it's often the count-in that's the culprit.

The worst is when people try to change the tempo DURING THE COUNT, usually because they started it at the wrong speed. " 1 - 2 - 1... 2.... 3..... 4...... " If this happens at rehearsal I just won't come in at all. I stop the band and then ask the counter "Which one of those different tempos would you like me to play at?" :D
 
#48
The Sloth said:
Not to be a snob, but how do you even participate in music without having an inner sense of time? How do you consider yourself a musician without this? I can't honestly remember functioning without at least some feel for it, and refining your inner time keeper JUST HAPPENS if you're improving. I was a guitar player first, so I can say this: what goes on in the minds of most guitarists? The fact that there's an underlying foundation or pulse to any given piece of music seemed to be this wild, foreign, "maybe someday" kind of concept to almost every guitar player I've ever played with. That's a page one issue, imo. You need to know time because that's how you organize sound.
Click to expand...
Lots of people spend years playing by themselves without anyone else to sync up with. You only find out your time sucks when you try to play with others, or a recording.

They may try to work on playing faster, and so play everything as fast as possible, slowing down for the complex parts to get them, Even playing with a recording isn't foolproof, they turn up to hear themselves until they can't hear the recording. Suddenly they notice they're way off. Oops.

Who hasn't heard gigging musicians playing along with a jukebox before they start a set... for a few seconds, anyway. Next thing you know, they've drifted off tempo and out of sync...

There's way too many musicians out there with lousy time for it to "just happen". You need to spend time with a metronome, drum tracks, recordings, something that plays at a constant speed to develop good time.

Everyone has trouble with complex passages, tending to slow down when things get intricate, its a natural response that you must work to overcome.

Randy
 
#54
I won't mention the name of the band but there is an internationally known band that did a live recording on which they start one song with the drummer yelling out the count. The only problem is that the drummer also starts the song by himself with no other members of the band playing for at least the first 10 seconds, so counting it in is pointless.
 
#57
One of my bands rarely needs a count in...whatever instrument starts the song just starts and everyone else joins in when required. Tempo is never an issue. For the few songs where we all start the same time, the guitarist/singer quietly goes "3,4" and we start with no problem. It's done so quiet that it's only audible to us on stage. For a couple others the drummer does a quick intro roll.

The other band has more problems with tempo and the drummer counts in almost every single song...even songs that begin with a guitar intro. It drives me crazy but if he didn't we'd never play songs at the right speed.

As a general rule, the better the musicians in the band, the less a count in is needed.
 

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