Covering a kick drum with a bass note

[BassFishingInAmerica]

If you are playing on beat and in time, you will generally be on the kick drum enough to create that Drum/Bass connection. Every now and then a bass note may accent the snare -- it is still going to maintain the "feel" of the music.

 

[MegaSwing]

Locking together with the drummer does not for a single moment mean you have to play the same pattern. That usually ends up feeling pretty rote. It's always and only about the interplay between you. Without imagination it's all meaningless anyway.

 

[Ekulati]

Wow. Awfully complicated here. Sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on the style. Listen to, and play, TONS of music. Your EXPERIENCE will then tell you. Easy.

 

[themarshall]

. Go forth and listen your ass off for the rest of your life.

Words to live by.

 

[MegaSwing]

Locking with a drummer but playing different patterns???
Very interesting, indeed.

You're converging at the same places, in the same meter and tempo as required by the song, so all that unites you as a rhythm section. But playing the identical rhythmic pattern? Hardly ever. That's kid stuff. You play off each other as much as with each other.

Sometimes I'll be a little ahead of the drummer to accentuate syncopation or anticipate a change. Sometimes I'm playing it straight while the drummer gets off. Most often it's the drummer who's playing it straight. Almost never do we play the same thing. However, we ARE totally in sync.

 

[hintz]

This thread got me thinking,when is it ok *not* to match the kick pattern? This is rhetorical....after playing 20 years its difficult *not* to try and match the kick!

 

[two fingers]

I'll try to simplify my "strict rules" about the GROOVE-based music.
More or less, I have (not always! Sometimes the "lighter version of a song does not let you develop them) at least two versions of the same groove, plus variations - Groove as a Rhythmic pattern, the foundation of rhythmic song/composition.

IS YOUR GROOVE BREATHING? That's one of the Most important thing I must pay attention to while dealing with a riff.
N.B. But of course, there are ALWAYS exceptions.


It's ONLY a Template.
Also, I ALWAYS pay attention to the FORM of the song.
Don't try to change your patterns within the same section of the form, unless (!) it's required by the arrangement.

It means (in simplified statement),
1. A "de-boned"/stripped version of the same groove with one, two, or more notes removed, plus variations.
Let's say for Intro or Verse 1. The same version with some variations/development for Verse 2, etc...

2. A Fully-developed pattern - with maximum notes of that rhythmic pattern - plus variations.
Most probably, it suits Chorus 1. The same pattern, maybe with some variations/development for Chorus 2, etc...

If I'm following some kind of pattern on the bass, it means that the Drummer WILL follow and WILL develops the drum pattern!
Once again, the bass player has MORE (as a generic approach!) flexibility of the bass riff/pattern.
I can go on continuing on my "personal" rhythm theory based PRIMARILY on my experience, listening, transcribing, programming, etc... (I wish I could find any WRITTEN material to support my "lost" cause).

Here is a simple song but could help to demonstrate my vision.
Check the way the Bass player and/or the Drum player is developing the song's rhythmic pattern by adding variations, notes, etc... for each SECTION of the song's form.
(I would say, that in some spots the bass player inserts too many notes.)



Let's check the following song with two SERIOUSLY PRO drummers playing together/simultaneously
- Dave Weckl and Chris Coleman.
But are they following the PATTERN?

YES, yes, and yes.



Let's check how a SERIOUSLY ADVANCED Bass Player John Patitucci is handling a Pop song.
Who can hear that CLEARLY-formed two-bar pattern?
If it's good for Patitucci and Wayne Shorter(!) - is Absolutely good for me.

You have made your point for sure.

There's also this very defined plan.

1) Click four times.
2) Grip it and rip it.
3) Collect the check and kiss the hot girl.


You wouldn't do well going on vacation with me and my wife. Vacation plan is as follows.

1) Pick cool place to hang out.
2) Go there.
3) Hang out. (Buy anything we forgot.)
4) Come home.


Seriously, are you really doing all.of these calculations in your head WHILE you are playing a LIVE SHOW?

 

[bassliner50]

If you listen to Jamerson, his fluid syncopated lines are often most similar to a conga drum beat. Listen to "Whats going on" for example.

 

[Session1969]

Should I always cover a kick drum with a bass note or may I leave it "naked" sometimes?

When I was making music on my computer I felt like it is better to not leave a kick drum alone without a bass played over it. Exceptions could be drum fills including a kick drum or some parts where drums play alone with no bass at all. But in a regular groove I always tried to keep kick covered.

But when after joining an originals band I started doubting if it's really that necessary. Are there any articles on this topic? What is your experience and opinion? Can you give any examples of songs with a groove where bass sometimes let kick play alone and it sounds good?

Why are you asking us ? All you have to do is listen to music and come to your own conclusion. The answer is there, isn't it ?

P.s. Great question, though.

 

[Ant Illington]

Should I always cover a kick drum with a bass note or may I leave it "naked" sometimes?

When I was making music on my computer I felt like it is better to not leave a kick drum alone without a bass played over it. Exceptions could be drum fills including a kick drum or some parts where drums play alone with no bass at all. But in a regular groove I always tried to keep kick covered.

But when after joining an originals band I started doubting if it's really that necessary. Are there any articles on this topic? What is your experience and opinion? Can you give any examples of songs with a groove where bass sometimes let kick play alone and it sounds good?

There are bass drum strokes everywhere you look without bass notes being struck at the same time. The only rule is that when they are being played together they should be tight. Unless you're looking for swagger, but you get the point.

 

[sedan_dad]

Remember that "music theory" is just that. A theory.

 

[Phalex]

I think I mostly listen to the hi hat and snare. I think.

 

[Levin]

Most of the time with some drummers I WISH I could cover up the bass drum with my bass!
In the end we usually use a blanket though.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

I'm not sure, but you're going to have to check your local ordinances on what can and can't be done......

All kidding aside, you don't have to cover every kick note.

 

[Timmy-Watts]

I could offer a very long response. But first I'd have to hear what genre you are talking about. There are as many answers as there are approaches, and probably more. I have never really thought of bass parts "covering" the bass drum, but maybe locking in with it, or complimenting it, or counterpoint with it.

 

[Anglerfish]

I could offer a very long response. But first I'd have to hear what genre you are talking about. There are as many answers as there are approaches, and probably more. I have never really thought of bass parts "covering" the bass drum, but maybe locking in with it, or complimenting it, or counterpoint with it.

Currently I am in a surf rock band. But I didn't specify the genre purposely because I would like to be ready for everything from pop to metal.

 

[songwriter21]

Downbeat, upbeat...don't think too much about, and just feel it!

A prime example? John Myung (bassist) and Mike Portnoy (drummer) create a KILLER groove and pocket here, like no other...simply perfection, imo.

Go to 2:36:

 

[mambo4]

The important lesson to absorb is that
A good rhythm section requires the drummer and bassist to know what each other is doing.
The advice to "lock in with the kick" is just a simplified shortcut to reaching that point.
It is appropriate in many styles, but context is everything.

Of course with modern mixing aesthetics, it's also a recipe for burying your bass signal...but that's another thread