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crash cours on tube amps

Always take a backup amp.
IME, if you get an old tube amp, plan on spending a little money and get it in shape. Find a good mechanic, change the oil, check the spark plugs, etc... But once you do that, it will be no more or less reliable than any other amp. When I got mine, I got it checked out, new caps and power tubes. Over the next year+ of gigging, I changed out the preamp tubes as they needed it. That part is super easy to do on your own. No problems in the years since then.

Make sure it's hooked up before you turn it on, let it warm up for a minuet, don't throw it around, keep it dry, don't abuse it... but that's kind of good practice with any gear, not just tube amps. If you hear a funny sound, take care of it.

No DI on the old Bassman, so if you gig a lot where you use a PA system, it might be worth it to keep a DI box. If you want "your tone", then think about a speaker level DI. It will get you the closest without a mic on the cab.

I have a vintage ('77) fender bassman 100. It's an awesome amp. I run it with a passive J, and play through a Berg CN212. Nice fat clean tone, great breakup when you are rocking and dig in.
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speaking of pawn shops I was at a charity sale yesterday and I got a Trace Elliot V4 head for 200 bux. I've never seen one before. I turned it over and saw the 4 Kt88's (assuming someone didn't put 6550's in it) and told the girl to put a sold sticker on it, now please.
I've been told it's a "pre-Gibson." still made in England which is apparently good. And apparently a bit rare, especially the v6's and v8's. Anybody used one?
 
I used to use a 1971 SVT with an EV 15b TL cab at 8 ohms. A lot of the time that was enough so I didn't always use 2 15's or the 4 ohm 810. The amp was always blowing fuses so I retubed it at almost 400 bux and ended up selling it before I knew exactly what it was. Now I've read this could have it been running the svt at 8ohms that was the problem?

Years ago before I knew better I cut a 4 ohm SVT cab in half and plugged each cab in for a total of 4 ohms with the 2 ohm tap (same as plugging in one 8 ohm cab) and my power tubes wore out a lot quicker and the amp distorted easy to the point of other band members noticing that it didn't have the power it was supposed to have, when I started running it at the proper impedance with the same cabs (got an adapter to parallel them into one input instead of two) it was night and day, louder, clearer and more punchy. Never blew a fuse but I wouldn't do it again, some people say they have no problems running them at 8 ohms but they probably weren't playing in bands as loud as I was at that time, it just couldn't keep up like it should have and it was obvious.
 
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And that may very well be true in many cases. Unlike with the SS rectifier where you do have stable full HV pretty much right away, the voltages present with a tube rectifier have not stabilized. It's just the unknown nature of it that concerns me. In any case the tubes aren't working too hard as long as you have hands off the bass. I just like the idea of letting the filaments warm up sufficiently before doing anything else to the tubes. YMMV.

I always use the standby switch and believe it's beneficial but I did read somewhere that with a tube rectifier you won't get high voltage until it conducts which makes sense. I know that bringing up the AC voltage from the wall socket for long dormant old radios with a variac that there is no or little voltage beyond them in the circuit with a tube rectifier until the variac hits about 60 volts out which I think is when the filament in the rectifier gets hot enough to conduct.
 
Is it a vintage fender Bassman with the open back and 4x10 Jensens, 6L6 power tubes, and type 83 or 5Z3 rectifier? If so, that amp is great for blues guitar. If it's original and the price is good, it would be a great amp to have. They make re-issues, and a lot of boutique makers have replicas of the amp. For a bass amp, it was not too popular, but more a guitar amp.
 
speaking of pawn shops I was at a charity sale yesterday and I got a Trace Elliot V4 head for 200 bux. I've never seen one before. I turned it over and saw the 4 Kt88's (assuming someone didn't put 6550's in it) and told the girl to put a sold sticker on it, now please.
I've been told it's a "pre-Gibson." still made in England which is apparently good. And apparently a bit rare, especially the v6's and v8's. Anybody used one?

A serious device. Simple and done right. I used a V-type preamp for a while.
 
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If it's a vintage bassman, especially if it hasn't been played in a long time, take it to a good tech to get checked out. You don't know what's happened to it between when it was built and now.

At the very least, the caps probably have fallen out of spec and need to be replaced, if they haven't been already.
 
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The seller of my Dynacord Bass King 50W tube amp had been informing me slightly imprecisely and irresponsible sloppy, maybe he honestly forgot, and just told me it ran on 8 Ohm, although the label on the chassis of the amp still said 16 Ohm.

The fact are that there are two speaker outputs and that it from stock ran on 16 Ohm, but also from stock has pins on the output transformer so that you can wire the two outputs to run at either 16, 8 or 4 Ohm.

Now the seller was a technician well versed in tube technology and had actually completely renovated the amp himself recently, and seemed to have done a really nice job at that as well, from what I could tell, so I trusted him.

And beside I was told correctly that putting in a cab of lower impedance up to half of the rated one should be fine, although it might cause lower performance and a higher rate of wear on the tubes, so either way I should be safe plugging in my 8 Ohm cab.

However when I plugged in my 8 Ohm 15" cab the amp got very hot very quickly where the power tubes are, to the point where you could scent the smell of burned electronics quite prominently and the few notes I got to play, before I decided it was probably best to turn the amp off again, sounded oddly thin and distorted and the speaker cone moved oddly as well as if overreacting to the sound in an uneven way.

I decided to pull the amp out of it's chassis to get to the electronics to see if I could figure out, via reading the schematics, which the seller had kindly included, what pins the speaker outputs actually were connected to on the output transformer.

However my fairly limited knowledge about electronics and inexperience with reading schematics didn't help me much, until I noticed someone, the seller I presume, actually with a permanent marker had written the actual impedance above the two speaker outputs, which turned out to be respectively 8 and 4 Ohm.

Turned out I had plugged my 8 Ohm cab into the 4 Ohm speaker output.

So I mounted the chassis for the amp again and with a permanent marker wrote the correct impedance of the outputs above them on the chassis too before plugging my 8 Ohm cab into the correct speaker output, and this time it went much better.

No suspicious smell of burned electronics, other than the usual fume that normally is to be expected from tube amps, neither did the tubes get hot as a toaster within 2 seconds, but seemed to follow the normal heating pattern and no were close getting as warm as before when they had warmed up properly, also when I played the bass it sounded beautifully and warm without any unwanted distortion as well as the speaker didn't act strange and the cone movements seemed to follow the notes played nicely without any overreacting or sudden hiccups like when I first tried it out with what turned out to be a 4 Ohm speaker output.

The point of this wall of text I guess is, yes, I can indeed confirm from first hand experience that feeding your tube amp with higher impedance than it is rated for makes it appear dangerously strange, and indeed seems like it could damage it badly in the long term.

Luckly I acted relatively quickly and managed to disconnect it before any serious permanent damage was done, and it has played beautifully ever since.

Also I can confirm that most tube amps seems to be of a very sturdy design, even if this amp in fact just was fully renovated, it is from 1963, and still seem to function flawlessly.

To further confirm this, I once owned an Ampeg B15S 60W tube head, build in 1969, and I used it for about 9 years (owned it since late 90's and used it from about 2000 and on wards, until I parted with it), at one point playing in a band over a 5 year period of time where I pushed it for all it could take 4 hours 2 times a week at rehearsals, plus occasional gigs, and it never once failed me, and never once did I have to have it looked after by an amp technician.

When I finally was stupid enough to sell it, it worked just as flawlessly as when I bought it.

Anyway, welcome to the world of tubes, those amp do really bring something special to the table that can't be achieved exactly the like otherwise.

In a way they seem more dynamic, almost organic and alive in the way they respond to your play, also have a certain softness to them, if that is the correct term, even when pushed into nasty and aggressive territory.

Hard to explain, but easy to feel and hear.

Personally at the moment I am bi-amping the 50W Dynacord tube head with my 130W SS Trace Elliot combo of the SM series though, to sort of get the best of both worlds.

Rock on :bassist:
 
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The seller of my Dynacord Bass King 50W tube amp had been informing me slightly imprecisely and irresponsible sloppy, maybe he honestly forgot, and just told me it ran on 8 Ohm, although the label on the chassis of the amp still said 16 Ohm.

The fact are that there are two speaker outputs and that it from stock ran on 16 Ohm, but also from stock has pins on the output transformer so that you can set the two outputs to run at either 16, 8 or 4 Ohm.

Now the seller was a technician well versed in tube technology and had actually completely renovated the amp himself recently, and seemed to have done a really nice job at that as well, from what I could tell, so I trusted him.

And beside I was told correctly that putting in a cab of lower impedance up to half of the rated one should be fine, although it might cause in lower performance and higher rate of wear on the tubes, so either way I should be safe plugging in my 8 Ohm cab.

However when I plugged in my 8 Ohm 15" cab the amp got very hot very quickly where the power tubes are, to the point where you could scent the smell of burned electronics quite prominently and the few notes I got to play, before I decided it was probably best to turn off the amp again, sounded oddly thin and distorted and the speaker cone moved oddly as well as if overreacting to sound in an uneven way.

I decided to pull the amp out of it's chassis to get to the electronics to see if I could figure out, via reading the schematics, which the seller had kindly included, what pins the speaker outputs actually were connected to on the output transformer.

However my fairly limited knowledge about electronics and inexperience with reading schematics didn't help me much, until I noticed someone, the seller I presume, actually with a permanent marker had written the actual impedance above the two speaker outputs, which turned out to be respectively 8 and 4 Ohm.

Turned out I had plugged my 8 Ohm cab into the 4 Ohm speaker output.

So I mounted the chassis for the amp again and with a permanent marker wrote the correct impedance of the outputs above them before plugging my 8 Ohm cab into the correct speaker output, and this time it went much better.

No suspicious smell of burned electronics, other then the usual fume that normally is to be expected from tube amps, neither did the tubes get hot as a toaster within 2 seconds, but seemed to follow the normal heating pattern and no were close getting as warm as before when it had warmed up properly, also when I played the bass it sounded beautifully and warm without any unwanted distortion as well as the speaker didn't act strange and the cone movements seemed to follow the notes played nicely without any overreacting or sudden hiccups like when I first tried it out with what turned out to be a 4 Ohm speaker output.

The point of this wall of text I guess is, yes, I can indeed confirm from first hand experience that feeding your tube amp with higher impedance than it is rated for makes it appear dangerously strange, and indeed seems like it could damage it badly in the long term.

Luckly I acted relatively quickly and it has played beautifully ever since.

Also I can confirm that most tube amps seems to be of a very sturdy design, even if this amp in fact just was fully renovated, it is from 1963, and still seem to function flawlesly.

To further confirm this, I once owned an Ampeg B15S 60W tube head, build in 1969, and I used it for about 10 years, at one point playing in band over a five year period of time where I pushed it for all it could take 4 hours 2 times a week at rehearsals, plus occasional gigs, and it never one failed me, and never once did I have to have it looked after at an amp technician.

When I finally was stupid enough to sell it, it worked just as flawlessly as when I bought it.

Anyway, welcome to the world of tubes, those amp do really bring something special to the table that can't be achieved exactly the like otherwise.

In a way they seem more alive and dynamic the way they respond to your play, also have certain softness to them even with they are pushed into nasty and aggressive territory, hard to explain, but easy to feel and hear.

Personally at the moment I am bi-amping the 50W Dynacord tube head though with my 130W SS Trace Elliot combo of the SM series, and sort of get the best of both worlds.

Rock on :bassist:
Well it seems, based on your story, that you were smarter about figuring out the output arrangements than Mr. Wizard who sold you the amp that he rebuilt.
Nice job of solving the mystery.
 
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b-15.jpg
To further confirm this, I once owned an Ampeg B15S 60W tube head, build in 1969, and I used it for about 9 years (owned it since late 90's and used it from about 2000 and on wards, until I parted with it), at one point playing in a band over a 5 year period of time where I pushed it for all it could take 4 hours 2 times a week at rehearsals, plus occasional gigs, and it never once failed me, and never once did I have to have it looked after by an amp technician.

When I finally was stupid enough to sell it, it worked just as flawlessly as when I bought it.


Rock on :bassist:

I own a B-15S now with the cab, it's a 77 and it is the best sounding amp I've ever owned, I did have the impedance switch set for 4 ohms instead of 8 by mistake at one time and one of the power tubes started glowing, I set it back to 8 and have had no problems with it since with the same tubes (original Magnavox 7027A's). It's my practice amp and it sounds so good it makes me want to play every time I look at it.
 
Standby is a myth

Indeed: "Stand-by myth".
Seems it was used by Fender as a way to use cheap, not rated for peak voltage, caps in his power supply. Even today high voltage caps cost more but not enough that any respectable engineer would us unrated caps.

Other amp makers just copied Fender, and now standby is just added as "familiar". With many floating myths how to properly use them.
 
Most tube amps unlike their solid state brothers put out the same power at all their rated Load levels where SS the power cuts with increased load. So if your tube amp puts out 120 watts at 8 ohms it will put out 120 watts at 4 ohms and if rated for it also 120 watts at 2 ohms. There are some tube amps that are not like this but most of the ones I have seen, used and Owned were like that Except the Peavey Alpha bass.

Bottom line is if you know the impedance of the cabs you want to buy, then buy and amp that can drive them.
If you don't match the impedance, it may be hard on the amp in some way.

Solid state amps can use multi-tap output transformer to perfectly match a bunch of impedance speakers and squeeze out every single watt. But SS is very powerful today and it's not worth the weight, cost, complexity of adding a transformer. Invalid Link Removed added a transformer to no real market breaking advantage. Transformers do not affect tone as much as other design aspect of amplifiers. Some new SS amps, for years, have had switches to work with lower impedance cabs. I don't see much of a benefit as if you get it wrong the amp can self-protect and act unreliable if the switch isn't in the right position.

Many closed systems like combos will deliver the full amp power into the impedance of the included speaker. It may be an 8-ohm driver, and the internal amp delivers it max power to 8-ohms. This was even true in tube combo days. No need to add a multi-tap transformer if the amp is only ever going to use one impedance.
 
Standby is a myth, they are for valves run at way higher voltages than ones for instruments.

If the amp does funny wrong sounds, or gets quieter on its own, stop using it and get it fixed by someone competent. Old valve amps are pretty capable of sort of working for ages while they are going wrong and wind up with lots wrong if you don't get them sorted.
Like KT88s?