One or two fools on a stool are about what many markets will bear. You'd better be able to sing. Nothing projects mediocrity more than lukewarm singing. It's what keeps me away from "live music." Those fools need autotune.
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CRAZY perspective I got from a long-time DJ last night
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One or two fools on a stool are about what many markets will bear. You'd better be able to sing. Nothing projects mediocrity more than lukewarm singing. It's what keeps me away from "live music." Those fools need autotune.
Plenty of dancing at the gigs I've been playing so don't know what to tell you. We're a party/dance band though, must have something to do with our song list perhaps?
Hiatus, explained... conversation between two Aussie explorers, after being consumed by a large carnivore...
[Aussie #1]: What just happened?
[Aussie #2]: Hiatus.
[Aussie #1]: What just happened?
[Aussie #2]: Hiatus.
I play in one of those, 8 piece and we do get dancers, but nowhere near as many as decades before. We have a decent commercial set list, pretty solid pro players, and a great engaging frontman. That said, market here in central Virginia for corporate event/dance/wedding bands is about slim and nil. I think we had 4 gigs last year, and to your point some serious dancing happening. My point is it’s not sustainable. 40 years ago? Packed dance floors 6 nights a week. Glad you are doing well.
That would go over big here in Portland! Still won't make any money but, would be appreciated!
Most clubs are pushing original music here because of the ASCAP thang so, you would work!
I maintain an "arms lenght" approach to the internet. Sure, I share a lot about myself. But it's intentionally ambiguous. Honestly, my current project has no web presence currently anyway. We've all been too busy to do it with the holidays and whatnot (even though our guitar player is a webmaster for a major industrial machines company.) We've only done three gigs. We're all former or current members of popular regional bands. The two places we have played we've gotten over $800. We'll likely get both venues to a grand by Spring. That'll do for our goals.... which are few and not very serious.
That's all I want to play unless a good fill-in gig comes along. I never said I want to play every weekend.
But here's what we do.
Nice powered-speakers PA....at least two tops and two subs. Nice Midas digital board. We hire a good sound guy who runs sound via an iPad. We all control our own monitor mixes from our phones. Usually in-ears but we have the wedges to do those too if need be. Three trees of lights (one in back and two in front). If that gig's sound guy doesn't want to mess with lights, I do them with a foot controller.
We have one rule about outward appearance of band members. "Don't look like you belong in the audience." The female singer struggles with this emotionally. There's nothing naturally "edgy" about her. So she has to dress and do her hair in a way that's not "natural" to her. But she does it. Because we have a rule. She's having more fun with it every gig.
One rule about drinking. The rest of the band has the right to cut you off. If you're mad about it, we talk about it later. No exceptions. None of us would drink too much anyway. That's a "just in case" rule.
The music. We do a lot of vocal harmony rock and modern country with a few soul songs sprinkled in. Three part harmonies are dead on. We do more vocal rehearsals than band rehearsal (only three full band rehearsals so far..... but this ain't our first rodeo.... so we chose the set via text... and each of us showed up to the first rehearsal ready to play 42 songs).
We haven't posed for a pic.... not even a casual one at a gig. We aren't trying to get bigger, further, or "more successful".
Success to us is the following.....
Our mission statement "Be the best local bar band. Don't be like the other local bar bands. Try a little harder. Entertain. Play everything perfectly. Don't look like the audience." It's hanging on the wall of the rehearsal room. (Of course, perfection is impossible. And we don't mean it literally. We simply mean play it "right".)
If we can't NAIL a song, we don't play it. There have been two dropped so far for that reason. One had too many horns. The other had too many vocal parts.
Everything we do is/was a radio hit with the exception of one song. Our guitar player nails "Cliffs of Dover" so we open the second set with it as a three peice. Then keys and lady singer join us.
We do half a dozen different songs each show. In other words, 5 or 6 songs get dropped from last show and we replace them. Part of the joy for us is learning challenging songs..... especially challenging three-part vocals.
We show up on time. Zero drama. I'm the only contact for one place. She's the only contact for the other.
We are great friends. Rehearsals involve more laughter than productive work. My one critique of our live performance is that we laugh so much on stage. I can't fuss at them because I'm the guiltiest party. It's always during the song. There is never "silence" on our stage. Never a "pause" while guitars are tuned (and never EVER a stupid joke about guitar tuning.... oy.)
We are professionals. Period.
We take our joyous hobby seriously.
That's all I want to play unless a good fill-in gig comes along. I never said I want to play every weekend.
But here's what we do.
Nice powered-speakers PA....at least two tops and two subs. Nice Midas digital board. We hire a good sound guy who runs sound via an iPad. We all control our own monitor mixes from our phones. Usually in-ears but we have the wedges to do those too if need be. Three trees of lights (one in back and two in front). If that gig's sound guy doesn't want to mess with lights, I do them with a foot controller.
We have one rule about outward appearance of band members. "Don't look like you belong in the audience." The female singer struggles with this emotionally. There's nothing naturally "edgy" about her. So she has to dress and do her hair in a way that's not "natural" to her. But she does it. Because we have a rule. She's having more fun with it every gig.
One rule about drinking. The rest of the band has the right to cut you off. If you're mad about it, we talk about it later. No exceptions. None of us would drink too much anyway. That's a "just in case" rule.
The music. We do a lot of vocal harmony rock and modern country with a few soul songs sprinkled in. Three part harmonies are dead on. We do more vocal rehearsals than band rehearsal (only three full band rehearsals so far..... but this ain't our first rodeo.... so we chose the set via text... and each of us showed up to the first rehearsal ready to play 42 songs).
We haven't posed for a pic.... not even a casual one at a gig. We aren't trying to get bigger, further, or "more successful".
Success to us is the following.....
Our mission statement "Be the best local bar band. Don't be like the other local bar bands. Try a little harder. Entertain. Play everything perfectly. Don't look like the audience." It's hanging on the wall of the rehearsal room. (Of course, perfection is impossible. And we don't mean it literally. We simply mean play it "right".)
If we can't NAIL a song, we don't play it. There have been two dropped so far for that reason. One had too many horns. The other had too many vocal parts.
Everything we do is/was a radio hit with the exception of one song. Our guitar player nails "Cliffs of Dover" so we open the second set with it as a three peice. Then keys and lady singer join us.
We do half a dozen different songs each show. In other words, 5 or 6 songs get dropped from last show and we replace them. Part of the joy for us is learning challenging songs..... especially challenging three-part vocals.
We show up on time. Zero drama. I'm the only contact for one place. She's the only contact for the other.
We are great friends. Rehearsals involve more laughter than productive work. My one critique of our live performance is that we laugh so much on stage. I can't fuss at them because I'm the guiltiest party. It's always during the song. There is never "silence" on our stage. Never a "pause" while guitars are tuned (and never EVER a stupid joke about guitar tuning.... oy.)
We are professionals. Period.
We take our joyous hobby seriously.
I can’t think of a race anywhere on Earth that does not have music as a central part of their culture. I could be wrong but it seems to exist all over the planet in ancient and modern cultures and has, as far back as anthropologists can tell.
Carbon-dating Keith Richards has proven this.
And for 99% of the people in nearly all cultures that make and perform that art over the centuries they have had to have a job to survive and have performed their music for no money for friends and family as entertainment.
I maintain an "arms lenght" approach to the internet. Sure, I share a lot about myself. But it's intentionally ambiguous. Honestly, my current project has no web presence currently anyway. We've all been too busy to do it with the holidays and whatnot (even though our guitar player is a webmaster for a major industrial machines company.) We've only done three gigs. We're all former or current members of popular regional bands. The two places we have played we've gotten over $800. We'll likely get both venues to a grand by Spring. That'll do for our goals.... which are few and not very serious.
That's all I want to play unless a good fill-in gig comes along. I never said I want to play every weekend.
But here's what we do.
Nice powered-speakers PA....at least two tops and two subs. Nice Midas digital board. We hire a good sound guy who runs sound via an iPad. We all control our own monitor mixes from our phones. Usually in-ears but we have the wedges to do those too if need be. Three trees of lights (one in back and two in front). If that gig's sound guy doesn't want to mess with lights, I do them with a foot controller.
We have one rule about outward appearance of band members. "Don't look like you belong in the audience." The female singer struggles with this emotionally. There's nothing naturally "edgy" about her. So she has to dress and do her hair in a way that's not "natural" to her. But she does it. Because we have a rule. She's having more fun with it every gig.
One rule about drinking. The rest of the band has the right to cut you off. If you're mad about it, we talk about it later. No exceptions. None of us would drink too much anyway. That's a "just in case" rule.
The music. We do a lot of vocal harmony rock and modern country with a few soul songs sprinkled in. Three part harmonies are dead on. We do more vocal rehearsals than band rehearsal (only three full band rehearsals so far..... but this ain't our first rodeo.... so we chose the set via text... and each of us showed up to the first rehearsal ready to play 42 songs).
We haven't posed for a pic.... not even a casual one at a gig. We aren't trying to get bigger, further, or "more successful".
Success to us is the following.....
Our mission statement "Be the best local bar band. Don't be like the other local bar bands. Try a little harder. Entertain. Play everything perfectly. Don't look like the audience." It's hanging on the wall of the rehearsal room. (Of course, perfection is impossible. And we don't mean it literally. We simply mean play it "right".)
If we can't NAIL a song, we don't play it. There have been two dropped so far for that reason. One had too many horns. The other had too many vocal parts.
Everything we do is/was a radio hit with the exception of one song. Our guitar player nails "Cliffs of Dover" so we open the second set with it as a three peice. Then keys and lady singer join us.
We do half a dozen different songs each show. In other words, 5 or 6 songs get dropped from last show and we replace them. Part of the joy for us is learning challenging songs..... especially challenging three-part vocals.
We show up on time. Zero drama. I'm the only contact for one place. She's the only contact for the other.
We are great friends. Rehearsals involve more laughter than productive work. My one critique of our live performance is that we laugh so much on stage. I can't fuss at them because I'm the guiltiest party. It's always during the song. There is never "silence" on our stage. Never a "pause" while guitars are tuned (and never EVER a stupid joke about guitar tuning.... oy.)
We are professionals. Period.
We take our joyous hobby seriously.
Got it. So not getting your desired level of pay is largely due to all the shabbily-dressed, no-light-rig-having hacks undercutting you in the local market? It has nothing to do with the fact that you've played 3 shows at 2 venues, have no web presence, and possess no photo/video of the band to illustrate your talents as a group. Just making sure I've got this straight so we can get back to it being everyone else's fault that you aren't getting what you want...
But it wasn’t paid work. Most of it was religious, so while the musicians were good, it wasn’t their first/only job, and it certainly wasn’t paid work.
What is wrong with you people not staying on topic?
Got it. So not getting your desired level of pay is largely due to all the shabbily-dressed, no-light-rig-having hacks undercutting you in the local market? It has nothing to do with the fact that you've played 3 shows at 2 venues, have no web presence, and possess no photo/video of the band to illustrate your talents as a group. Just making sure I've got this straight so we can get back to it being everyone else's fault that you aren't getting what you want...
I go back nearly 20 years with several club owners. So, I'm fine. I'm squeezing every dollar out of what they'll do these days.
But I'm not trying to make a living at it.
There is zero motivation these days IN MY AREA for an 18-24 year old person to gather like-minded people around, learn a set, polish and act, invest in PA, set up a corporate structure, and go work their way up to the private/corporate scene.
The pro band I played in for a decade was exactly that. There were half a dozen others that started around the same time that did well. Many of the older pro bands AROUND HERE had done the same thing in the 80s or 90s.... a few since the 70s..... one since 1959.
The only way a kid has a shot of making a living in a situation like that IN MY AREA is to take the place of a retiring or fired band member in an established band. But there used to be tons of us. Parking lots at festivals used to have circles of older musicians telling younger musicians stories and whatnot.
Again, I'm not upset FOR MYSELF. All I want to do is get a fair rate for bringing 35-48 year old music veterans and executing a great performance in a few bars. If I don't get that, we'll stay in my jam room and have some laughs. I don't "need" to do what I do in front of a "crowd" like many here seem to (which is fine).
We won't do it for $300. Period. We won't do it for a dime under $800.... and that's an introductory rate. But it's not the need for the money. It's the principle of the thing.
But there's no way a young upstart band should try to become a polished act with a great PA and lighting and start with clubs while contacting agents (the same way every established band around here started for decades). If I were asked I would tell them to forget it. And PART of the reason I would tell them that is they'll starve before they can build a good reputation having to shift through the swamp of what the music scene has become IN OUR AREA.
"Syde Projek" and "Al and the Other Accountants" amd "Wylde Streak" "deserve to blow off some steam after swinging hammers and punching keys all week". And they'll do it for nothing. So that's what OUR MARKET has become. More than 50% horrible bands with horrible 8" speakers on a stick for PA, no lights, gardening clothes, and watered down versions of songs that were never that hard to begin with for people who can actually play.
It's not about me. It's about the future of what was once a pretty good music scene.
Hack bands are a factor. Period. They're not the only reason it's dying. But the ARE a factor IN MY AREA.
hi Spidey
I hope that poor animal won' t get ill with diaeresis.
Wise
"The diaeresis and the umlaut are diacritics marking two distinct phonological phenomena. The diaeresis represents the phenomenon also known as diaeresis or hiatus in which a vowel letter is pronounced separately from an adjacent vowel and not as part of a digraph or diphthong."
This was either a bad autocorrect, or Wise can wrap a package, like it's nobody's business.
Now, tell me more about this diphthong.
Teijo K.
Commercial User
You don’t think after 426 posts that the original topic had not been put through the wringer over and over enough already.
Your response to Father Gino was pretty dimissive after he made a relevant statement about what motivates people to play and you know, some people don’t play for money. Very on topic I would say.
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Self-disdain? Monumental? Dude, you need to get yourself some perspective!!The level of self-disdain on TB is monumental.
Most musical ability is learnable - just like with reasoning and critical thought, people just don’t want to bad enough to stick with it.Which really doesn't explain why so many many non-musicians wish they had musical ability... and no, I don't think most people have it, unless clapping on the wrong beat counts as a skill.
Now you are starting to make more sense... I think the 'traditional' routes got closed off decades ago, roughly around the time of the expansion and virtualisation of global mass-media and the steadily reducing number of organisations that control it.
There was a time that I was playing in 3 cover bands years ago. I was making enough to pay the bills. I was younger, cuter, stronger, and probably more marketable.
I don't know if the music scene changed but I sure did.
Cut to recently: I auditioned for a great band and beat out 5 other bass players. Unfortunately, there were way too many weeknight gigs which conflicted with my Job as a Chemist. So I had to pass on the best opportunity I have had in years.
So once again; Did the music scene change or was it more that I have changed.
If I was 24 again, I know I could make a living playing bass and I'm not really that good.
I don't know if the music scene changed but I sure did.
Cut to recently: I auditioned for a great band and beat out 5 other bass players. Unfortunately, there were way too many weeknight gigs which conflicted with my Job as a Chemist. So I had to pass on the best opportunity I have had in years.
So once again; Did the music scene change or was it more that I have changed.
If I was 24 again, I know I could make a living playing bass and I'm not really that good.
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