CRAZY perspective I got from a long-time DJ last night

[two fingers]

I attended a neighborhood Superbowl party last night. The host's father was visiting NC from Upstate New York. He's a private party DJ. He used to do clubs as well. He's older than me..... maybe in his 60s if I had to guess. He started DJing on 1978 and has been doing it steady ever since.

(By the way, he did his first job entirely on a phone last week. He literally had Spotify and Amazon Prime apps going on his phone and took requests as well as having a "set list". The times, they are uh changin'.)

Get this......


He told me that it's "getting harder and harder to find work". Wanna know why?

He said that "Little bands are springing up everywhere all over the country. Not only are people getting tired of DJs. But these little garage bands will play for LESS MONEY THAN I CAN DO IT FOR."

You read that last part correctly.

We have had this discussion here before. Yes, it's been beat to death. But coming from a DJ who has been in the biz for decades it really hit home for me.

Two things struck me.

1) The whole time we live musicians are pissing and moaning about not getting work because of DJs, they're out there pissing and moaning about not getting work because of "hack bands" (his words).

2) But I'll say it again. If you are playing GIGS with a full band for a few hundred bucks, you are actually HURTING the market for the rest of us.

Do us all a favor and just jam in the garage if you can't demand more than a DJ with nothing but two speakers on a stick and some fancy lights gets.

If we all told club owners we would rather stay home than play for $300, the price WOULD go up. Sure, we would lose some to DJs. But not as many as you think.

Just my two cents.

 

[Nashrakh]

2) But I'll say it again. If you are playing GIGS with a full band for a few hundred bucks, you are actually HURTING the market for the rest of us.

[...]

If we all told club owners we would rather stay home than play for $300, the price WOULD go up. Sure, we would lose some to DJs. But not as many as you think.

This is a discussion I'm having with a band of mine right now. It was triggered by seeing a band playing a very successful venue for tips. Behind the band it even said, written in chalk, "We can't pay the band. Please tip them." (Which amounted to about ~$150 at the end of the night for a five piece band) What a cruel joke. If they really couldn't pay the band, the whole business would be giving out pretty soon.

I was the only one saying that this **** wouldn't fly with me. If they want a band, or a DJ, they pay for it. No free gigs except for charity. Got flak because "we have to start somewhere" and "this is our reality right now". They didn't seem to get that it takes two to tango - if there are bands lining up to play for scraps, the situation will never change in our favor.

It's tough because these people don't see that you CAN start your band somewhere that's not rock bottom.

 

[nutdog]

This reminds me of Tim Cook blaming Apple's low sales on the trade war. It couldn't have anything to do with them jacking up their prices.

Maybe the clients don't want to pay top dollar for an old dude to play tunes on his phone.

 

[FunkHead]

Do us all a favor and just jam in the garage if you can't demand more than a DJ with nothing but two speakers on a stick and some fancy lights gets.

This is a pretty unrealistic request IMO. New bands with youngsters usually start out where we all started out.
I honestly would still do the $500 per band gigs. I play for the enjoyment and will never knock down the $$ coming from my main occupation.

If someones band is that good, then they can demand the higher paychecks. They should be able to get into the bigger clubs.

You will never stop newer or less in demand bands from playing the bar scene.

As far as D-J'ing Via a cell phone, That's the way it's done these days. It's simple to do and really doesn't take any special skills. My friend does it for free as a volunteer in the local community. This includes High School Proms and Sporting events.

 

[lz4005]

1) The whole time we live musicians are pissing and moaning about not getting work because of DJs, they're out there pissing and moaning about not getting work because of "hack bands" (his words).

Shocking that everyone wants to blame someone else for their problems.

 

[And I]

As we don't have a "bands union", there will just be another band to come in and scoop up the $300 gig you just turned down. Sure, if ALL bands did it, we could drive up our rates. But if not all of us do it, we just take ourselves out of the game.

 

[portpc]

I couldn't care less if bands wish to play for free, If I worry about a terrible business model being competition for my act should I simply hang it up?.. or am I not marketing effectively?

DJ's (at least in my neck of the woods) are hanging themselves with ground shaking subwoofers, a constant noise barrage & irritating "motivators" who do everything possible to convince folks that they are having a good time..
One of the keys to having a good wedding band to is ensure that the table closest to your setup can have a conversation & not get blown up when the band starts.

 

[Spidey2112]

I had a similar agreement with Time Warner. I'd pay them a fair amount to essentially watch content, which rated high when Benjamin Franklin was the postmaster. When we no longer could agree to an equitable contract, Time Warner decided to up charge the rest of their customers, to make up for the loss of revenue...

... wait a sec...

 

[Spidey2112]

Do us all a favor and just jam in the garage if you can't demand more than a DJ with nothing but two speakers on a stick and some fancy lights gets.

And, what would THAT price be, roughly?

 

[Scottgun]

Not only are people getting tired of DJs

That's encouraging. Kinda like vinyl making a small comeback. Pushback against the technology-induced disposability of music?

 

[alembicguy]

You get what you pay for. How many of the cheap bands keep getting return offers?

 

[RustyAxe]

2) But I'll say it again. If you are playing GIGS with a full band for a few hundred bucks, you are actually HURTING the market for the rest of us.
Do us all a favor and just jam in the garage if you can't demand more than a DJ with nothing but two speakers on a stick and some fancy lights gets.

You probably should try to keep your two cents to yourself. Where does ANYONE come off telling anyone else what, where, and for what money they can play? Put a hundred in my hand for an easy three hour gig in the corner bar/cafe/restaurant, I'm fine. I'm not playing corporate jobs and weddings for that money, but what if I did? As Ella and Taj say, "ain't nobody's business but my own".

 

[Torrente Cro]

30 years ago being waiter was regular day job, and today it's mainly for students and such.
Being a software developer there were times when everybody had some neighbor kid who is "genius" and will work for peanuts, specially web design.
That's why I do more complex stuff that nobody likes doing, even for money
If my work is threatened by amateurs maybe I'm in a wrong kind of work.
Business environment is constantly changing and you have to adjust.

 

[mcarp555]

It's the age-old problem: "I DESERVE to be paid [X dollars]!" But when management hires cheaper labor (or sends the jobs somewhere else), then what? Do people need to pay a hundred thousand for a car because some guys in Detroit want top dollar? Competition is what drives prices and wages in the long run.

 

[TheReceder]

Seems unfair to tell someone to play in their garage if they want to perform in front of people.

One of my groups are composed of retired (or nearly retired) professionals (as in rich dudes that made bank in full time jobs). They play for the enjoyment, and quite honestly are better than a lot of other local musicians.

They/we play for what matters (to them/us).
1. Local.
2. Early finish so we can get to bed early
3. Production typically provided. (Old backs appreciate this)
4. Enough cash to keep ourselves in gear and not have to dip into retirement accounts to buy strings n things.

Combined we're probably at about 4 million years experience.... give or take. (Based on the fact that people think we're dinosaurs.)

We probably hurt other bands because we'll get calls because we're good... and cheap.

Maybe those other bands need to play for 30-40 years so they can be as happy as we are?

 

[Hambone70]

C’mon. Simple supply and demand.

 

[RichardW]

If you are playing GIGS with a full band for a few hundred bucks, you are actually HURTING the market for the rest of us.

Do us all a favor and just jam in the garage if you can't demand more than a DJ with nothing but two speakers on a stick and some fancy lights gets.

Excuse me? My band's goal should be to not make life harder for your band or some DJ? Since when?

It's called competition. Get used to it.

My band has played gigs ranging from free to over $1000. We gig maybe 6-8 times a year. We don't do it for the money. I'm pretty sure we've not prevented any other band from getting a gig anywhere, but if we have so what? That's life.

 

[InhumanResource]

Wait, so the solution to "i can't compete with low prices" is asking competitors to exit?

My band takes the $500 to 1k gigs. We're also old guys with no manager and haven't collectively gotten entirely out of doing what we want vs doing what makes business sense. So that's what we get. I have posted about this before.

Having said that, I'm fine with the pay rate we get. I don't want to play in a garage, I want a few fun gigs a year and get money for gas or the occasional gear purchase. If I can gig a couple times a month I'm happy. I'm supposed to quit because some people would rather hire my cheap band than a more expensive one?

 

[Kmonk]

My recent band would only play casinos, festivals and large clubs. At casinos and festivals, we typically played for 90 minutes for a minimum of $1,500, plus food. If we played a club, we usually split the night with another band and did two 60 minute sets for no less than $1,500 plus drinks.

I get the OP's point but disagree with the logic. I don't think asking "hack bands" to stay out of clubs is going to accomplish anything or open up opportunities for better bands to get better paying gigs. First of all, these "hack bands" are not about to turn down paying gigs. Second, most people in bands thinks they are rock stars and deserve more money than the venue is willing to pay. Times have changed and unfortunately, most bands are not very good and many of them play the same songs. I am shocked by how bad some of the videos are that people are posting on Facebook, Youtube, etc. People have to be realistic about how good their band really is. The solution is to have a very good band and play better clubs. If the cost of bands or a DJ is more than a bar/club is willing to pay, they will either have music pumped in via Sirius/XM, Spotify, etc, or convert to a restaurant/sports bar.

 

[FunkHead]

And another thing...I have seen some of the very finest musicians playing $400 bar gigs. Maybe they were getting more but most places have their Max payout and stick to it pretty rigidly.

I just want to play. I love playing my basses. I love having a nice Rig on stage with me too.

Sure it's nice to get more. I got $4800 for 2 hours in a studio one time. I also played many free cancer benefits too. I love playing bass and have for 40+ years.

I will take whatever gig I want and couldn't care less about what somebody else thinks I should be making.