CRAZY perspective I got from a long-time DJ last night

[RustyAxe]

So, what are we to discuss on talkbass, if we need to keep our "two cents" to ourselves? And for that matter... why is it okay for you to disregard your own advice?

You're a little late the to ball, doc.

 

[crazyBassClown]

He replied that in his further opinion, one person needs to be entirely in charge of song selection, the one singing them, and everyone else should be essentially a hired gun - you maybe get paid $25 for each rehearsal and $100 per gig, guaranteed, but you *have* to show up and you *have* to know your parts. No input on whether you want to do a song or a completely different song.

I was kind of taken aback, and didn't say much about it, but the more I thought about it later, the more I thought "that doesn't sound like a very fun situation to be in, I'd have to nope out of that."

After having spent the last couple of years drifting from band to band where everyone had input and failed to reach consensus and actually learn a full setlist, with minimal gigs achieved, I have just joined a new band on the model mentioned, and it's been the most fun I've had in a band for a long time. Turned up to the first rehearsal and everyone just knew their parts. It went better than a lot of gigs I've done with bands rehearsing for months.
There is going to be a fairly low rehearsal to gig ratio so it's just win-win from my perspective.

Of course it is probably highly dependant on the person actually calling the shots.

 

[Eilif]

Late to the party but...

You probably should try to keep your two cents to yourself. Where does ANYONE come off telling anyone else what, where, and for what money they can play? Put a hundred in my hand for an easy three hour gig in the corner bar/cafe/restaurant, I'm fine.

Respectfully 2-Fingers,
I'm kind of leaning this way.

I generally don't know exactly what my band makes for a 3 hour gig, but it's probably more-and-less (depending on gig) arouond the $300 the first post mentioned. What I do know is what the leader gives me -even load in/out taken into consideration- is better than I make hourly at work and it comes in cash.

That's enough to keep me coming back.

 

[aborgman]

Do us all a favor and just jam in the garage if you can't demand more than a DJ with nothing but two speakers on a stick and some fancy lights gets.

Do me a favor and float me half your gig money and I'll stay home.

 

[Blufishbass]

I attended a neighborhood Superbowl party last night. The host's father was visiting NC from Upstate New York. He's a private party DJ. He used to do clubs as well. He's older than me..... maybe in his 60s if I had to guess. He started DJing on 1978 and has been doing it steady ever since.

(By the way, he did his first job entirely on a phone last week. He literally had Spotify and Amazon Prime apps going on his phone and took requests as well as having a "set list". The times, they are uh changin'.)

Get this......


He told me that it's "getting harder and harder to find work". Wanna know why?

He said that "Little bands are springing up everywhere all over the country. Not only are people getting tired of DJs. But these little garage bands will play for LESS MONEY THAN I CAN DO IT FOR."

You read that last part correctly.

We have had this discussion here before. Yes, it's been beat to death. But coming from a DJ who has been in the biz for decades it really hit home for me.

Two things struck me.

1) The whole time we live musicians are pissing and moaning about not getting work because of DJs, they're out there pissing and moaning about not getting work because of "hack bands" (his words).

2) But I'll say it again. If you are playing GIGS with a full band for a few hundred bucks, you are actually HURTING the market for the rest of us.

Do us all a favor and just jam in the garage if you can't demand more than a DJ with nothing but two speakers on a stick and some fancy lights gets.

If we all told club owners we would rather stay home than play for $300, the price WOULD go up. Sure, we would lose some to DJs. But not as many as you think.

Just my two cents.

I attended a neighborhood Superbowl party last night. The host's father was visiting NC from Upstate New York. He's a private party DJ. He used to do clubs as well. He's older than me..... maybe in his 60s if I had to guess. He started DJing on 1978 and has been doing it steady ever since.

(By the way, he did his first job entirely on a phone last week. He literally had Spotify and Amazon Prime apps going on his phone and took requests as well as having a "set list". The times, they are uh changin'.)

Get this......


He told me that it's "getting harder and harder to find work". Wanna know why?

He said that "Little bands are springing up everywhere all over the country. Not only are people getting tired of DJs. But these little garage bands will play for LESS MONEY THAN I CAN DO IT FOR."

You read that last part correctly.

We have had this discussion here before. Yes, it's been beat to death. But coming from a DJ who has been in the biz for decades it really hit home for me.

Two things struck me.

1) The whole time we live musicians are pissing and moaning about not getting work because of DJs, they're out there pissing and moaning about not getting work because of "hack bands" (his words).

2) But I'll say it again. If you are playing GIGS with a full band for a few hundred bucks, you are actually HURTING the market for the rest of us.

Do us all a favor and just jam in the garage if you can't demand more than a DJ with nothing but two speakers on a stick and some fancy lights gets.

If we all told club owners we would rather stay home than play for $300, the price WOULD go up. Sure, we would lose some to DJs. But not as many as you think.

Just my two cents.

May I chime in? I live in Vancouver BC and gig regularly with my 5 piece band Orphan Alley. We are actually a very good band, the level of musicianship is quite high and we all get along really well. There is the odd gig we do for $100 each but quite often its more. None of us need the money, we're all in our late 50's & 60's either retired or still working but we're in this band for the music first, always.

Too often a band is thrown together to serve a gig, then it's over but for us, we rehearse most every Saturday, are always adding new material, often complex material that requires the skill level that the band possesses. Because of all of this we are getting noticed by club owners, managers and competing bands. What comes with this is demand for our band, and can you think of anything else that's going to drive up your gig paycheck? There is really little else that will so we just keep on improving the band and our repertoire and as the demand for the band increases so will the pay scale.

If you think that any band that's moving up in your area takes away from what you're doing then maybe it's time for you to up your game?

 

[two fingers]

May I chime in? I live in Vancouver BC and gig regularly with my 5 piece band Orphan Alley. We are actually a very good band, the level of musicianship is quite high and we all get along really well. There is the odd gig we do for $100 each but quite often its more. None of us need the money, we're all in our late 50's & 60's either retired or still working but we're in this band for the music first, always.

Too often a band is thrown together to serve a gig, then it's over but for us, we rehearse most every Saturday, are always adding new material, often complex material that requires the skill level that the band possesses. Because of all of this we are getting noticed by club owners, managers and competing bands. What comes with this is demand for our band, and can you think of anything else that's going to drive up your gig paycheck? There is really little else that will so we just keep on improving the band and our repertoire and as the demand for the band increases so will the pay scale.

If you think that any band that's moving up in your area takes away from what you're doing then maybe it's time for you to up your game?

My band does fine. We're in the same situation as you are. Nine if us need the money. So far, we've all spent way much more on this band than we've made (nice digital mixer, good active speakers, nice lights and controller, and I've bought 4 basses since this band started ). AND we only want to play a couple/few times a month. So we can be selective and turn down low-paying gigs out of principle.

That's not the point. My concern is NOT just for my band. It's for the entire local music scene/market. Something about a rising tide....

 

[frankie5string]

Running a rock-music cover band is difficult. You're playing covers of music that were big 40-65 years ago and you expect to still draw young people in after all the people who loved that music 60 years ago have stopped coming to bars and pubs, no longer wear their hair long, or drink themselves silly (because so many of those bands rely on drink sales.)

A lot of club/pub/bar rock cover bands don't really put on a show. They think it's enough to get up on stage and belt out Mustang Sally, or Brown Sugar, or Freebird, sometimes looking like schleppers or hooligans. I'm sure for some people that's their bag, but not many now. Rock music is now several generations away from its genesis and lots of younger folk don't really understand the disconnect between the music and the on-stage fashion. They have their own music.

My mum loved going to see Bowser and friends at the CNE each summer, and she was a huge Carole King fan, but she never wanted to set foot in a club to see any music. She wanted a theatre show experience, and casino revival/return acts are doing very well. Lots people love that sort of thing. It wasn't just guys on stage playing cover songs, it was a show, with no swearing on stage, and it's always classy and fun, and the story telling and reminiscing was just as much a part of the show as the music. Just like classical/romantic/baroque music which is now being synced to videos and CGI in real-time, live. It's a show!

As a young guy (I'm 42, now) first hitting the pubs in the early 90s, most of the cover bands I saw in pubs and bars around the city didn't really inspire me to hit the stage and play music. Often it just seemed like a pile of older idiots on stage belching and cussing at each other between songs.

But damn, those classy revival acts really inspired me.

That's not the point. My concern is NOT just for my band. It's for the entire local music scene/market. Something about a rising tide....

 

[MultiScaleMale]

A lot of club/pub/bar rock bands don't really put on a show. They think it's enough to get up on stage and belt out Mustang Sally, or Brown Sugar, or Freebird, sometimes looking like schleppers or hooligans. I'm sure for some people that's their bag. But Rock music is now several generations away and lots of younger folk don't really understand the disconnect between the music and the on-stage fashion.

My mum used to love going to see Bowser and friends at the CNE each summer, and she was a huge Carole King fan, but she never wanted to set foot in a club to see any music. She wanted a theatre show experience, and casino revival/return acts are doing very well. Lots people love that sort of thing. It wasn't just guys on stage playing cover songs, it was a show, with no swearing on stage, and it's always classy and fun, and the story telling and reminiscing was just as much a part of the show as the music.

As a young guy (I'm 42, now) first hitting the pubs in the early 90s, most of the cover bands I saw in pubs and bars around the city didn't really inspire me to hit the stage and play music. But damn, those revival acts really inspired.

There are differing scenarios for bands - sometimes people go out to see "the band", other times they're going out to hang with friends, talk and the band is entertainment. They're both fine.

 

[frankie5string]

That doesn't mean the act on stage shouldn't still try... In Toronto, many bars now have internet connected Juke-boxes installed. Those things are a lot of fun for the patrons.

There are differing scenarios for bands - sometimes people go out to see "the band", other times they're going out to hang with friends, talk and the band is entertainment. They're both fine.

 

[Blufishbass]

My band does fine. We're in the same situation as you are. Nine if us need the money. So far, we've all spent way much more on this band than we've made (nice digital mixer, good active speakers, nice lights and controller, and I've bought 4 basses since this band started ). AND we only want to play a couple/few times a month. So we can be selective and turn down low-paying gigs out of principle.

That's not the point. My concern is NOT just for my band. It's for the entire local music scene/market. Something about a rising tide....

An entire local scene can flourish or it can flounder, which one would any of us prefer?

 

[two fingers]

An entire local scene can flourish or it can flounder, which one would any of us prefer?

Flourish? Why isn't that obvious?

 

[Blufishbass]

Flourish? Why isn't that obvious?

Why? Because most of us players are use to floundering and complaining about how things are instead of working hard to make a difference. That's what we're trying to do.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

That doesn't mean the act on stage shouldn't still try... In Toronto, many bars now have internet connected Juke-boxes installed. Those things are a lot of fun for the patrons.

I think your definition of “try” is different than many, and that’s fine. Reality is that a lot of places love to hear Mustang Sally.

 

[Blufishbass]

I think your definition of “try” is different than many, and that’s fine. Reality is that a lot of places love to hear Mustang Sally.

We too can play Mustang Sally if someone really wants to hear it but it is not part of our standard repertoire. In fact, we perform many original tunes in the vein of Toto, Gino Vanelli and Steely Dan. People LOVE it because they hear fresh material that they are not familiar with. All covers were once someone's original idea so why stop the writing? It's one facet that is moving our band forward.

 

[two fingers]

Why? Because most of us players are use to floundering and complaining about how things are instead of working hard to make a difference. That's what we're trying to do.

Oh I get it now. Us too. Sorry, I was confused.

 

[1st Bass]

Flounder is pretty good, if it’s cooked right...

 

[jamro217]

Sounds like he got caught at his own game: offer a lower price for a night's worth of entertainment. Yeah, disco ruined live music back in the late '70's and the clubs got more frugal (i.e. GREEDIER). It's kind of ironic that a generation that spends most of its time looking at their phones would even notice the source of the music in a club, much less complain about it. If this means good musicians are doomed, not so fast. If The Rolling Stones are still touring, you know there's money to be made out there. Hacks be damned, there's a venue for each level of entertainment. I doubt your $.75 cover charge at a local dive will get you face to face with Mick and Keef, but there may be a club where decent bands can be enjoyed for a few dollars more. Let's stick together.

 

[BwanaDust]

My trio does gigs ranging from 500 to 1000 plus. We do that two or three times a month and have a rotating jam night where we get 300 for the band. I don't see how a larger band could do that, but it's perfect for trios.

 

[Blufishbass]

My trio does gigs ranging from 500 to 1000 plus. We do that two or three times a month and have a rotating jam night where we get 300 for the band. I don't see how a larger band could do that, but it's perfect for trios.

That's excellent! So happy to hear that a performing band is getting paid! Yippee!!

 

[Rock Salad]

My band is not ready for prime time. I know this. Our B.L. wants to play out though, so we do. I am pretty sure that even though our all original three hour set list is good, many professionals would cringe at the hitches and mess ups in our performances.
We play for free and for low pay. That is only fair. However, rough as it is, i believe we are contributing, not detracting to our local scene. We play in places that otherwise would not have a band. And we get better as we go. Now if we were chasing people away, i wouldn't do it, but each time we go out we get a couple more friend/supporters.
I think that if we asked for more pay, we would be detracting from the local scene because we might actually get it sometimes. Boy, the patrons and club owners would leave with a bad taste then.