CRAZY perspective I got from a long-time DJ last night

[Pops OB]

Lots of young people couldn’t care less about live music, all they want is the beat. It’s really a shame.

Hire a DJ for a wedding reception. Chances are you’ll be paying more than you’d pay for live music. Heck, as Santa, I’m paid more for a 30 minute public event than musicians make for a three set gig. Musicians are routinely undervalued.

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

I find it interesting that little has been said about popularity. Hold a crowd, better yet bring a crowd, get asked back to play again. I played an afternoon gig last weekend with a band that is overall pretty good (I'm no Jaco) playing fairly routine variety rock. We do this venue once a month. Great crowd, great tips, reasonable pay. The evening act was a quartet of MONSTER players playing just the kind of stuff I like. Small crowd, playing for a cover. They probably made less than we did.

 

[njfrese]

It's always been about the bottom line. The club owner doesn't give a flying fog how good or bad the band is as long as the cash register is ringing. It's commerce, not art. That's the way it is now; that's the way it has ALWAYS been. Best get used to it. The first question they are gonna ask you is "what's your following", which translates to "how many asses are you gonna put in the seats." Act accordingly.

 

[Furutan]

"We can't pay the band. Please tip them."

Horse hockey. Live bands attract patrons, patrons spend money on drinks, the house pockets the money. If the band pulls in 100 extra customers that wouldn't have shown up otherwise and the average bill is $30 each, that's an extra $3,000 that the bar made because of the band. If they can't cough up a bare minimum of $500 its because they are greedy and don't mind screwing the musicians. Besides, they could always have a cover charge when there's a live band. It doesn't even have to be very much. To lowball it, say there are only 200 customers that night and the cover charge is a measley $5. that's $1,000 right there, in addition to the liquor sales.

 

[jeff porturica]

I'm sure the folks in AFM Local 126 would disagree...

Actually, I am curious.
Reading about the Wrecking Crew, for example, it seems the Musicians Union was a big deal in those days...is that no longer the case?
If not, why not?
Has it fallen into disrepute, or does it charge silly money and do nothing?

Seems the only way to get bands earning a decent wage would be to have every musician out there unionised, and refuse to pay for less than the agreed rate.

Probably completely unrealistic, I know...


Note I've never been in a Musicians union myself...Ireland has one, but I get the impression it's very small, and members are mainly concert orchestra folks or some of the very few musicians who work for national radio/tv stations, where I believe if you're not in the union, you won't get the job.

 

[FunkHead]

It's always been about the bottom line. The club owner doesn't give a flying fog how good or bad the band is as long as the cash register is ringing. It's commerce, not art. That's the way it is now; that's the way it has ALWAYS been. Best get used to it. The first question they are gonna ask you is "what's your following", which translates to "how many asses are you gonna put in the seats." Act accordingly.

It has long been my dream to open up a really good club with live music. My club will have 3 stages with a common dance floor. I most certainly will care about the music and will be known as the best local live music venue in the world.
The money will follow.

 

[Jari vanlaere]

The bands i'm in, cater to the market we play for. What it means is the prices we ask differ wildly. Very wildly...

Take for example a company wants to hire us. If you ask... 300 euro/dollars as a band, you will NOT get the job because that cheap, you cant be any good (their mindset) so we ask for 750 bare (as in no PA just band and basic gear) and low and behold, gig landed. They dont care, its taxreductable,...

If we wanna gig in a (small) bar however,
300 for the whole band (with pa) is almost an absolute max.
Think of it this way: bartender has to sell about 200pints of beer(or whatever) before
He can pay the band. Not counting his other costs like staff... if his bar fits 50... there is almost no way he's breaking even that night. Not with a band, not with a dj, no live entertainment basicly. If it fits 100 and he has a full house it's doable... maybe...
Larger bars, larger prices.

Every contract is personal and catered too.

And yes there is a minimum, we wont play for like 50 bucks and free beer. But not taking in acount your clientèle is just stupid.

Compare it to the price for a car in the us or in a 3rd world country. Import costs are the same but prices will vary wildly, depending on local general income.

Now I am willing to admit dat different countries/regions will have a different mindset when it comes to asking and paying for their live-entertainment. So it is possible that what I just said does not apply to you, personally. But what im talking about is on general, basic buisness logic. So I doubt the general idea is that far off.

 

[Ed Hawke]

Sometimes the internal dynamics of a group, the amenities that go with the job, or the time between gigs, will allow for a smaller reimbursement for services rendered. But, if the group isn't on the same page, the band can crater even when there are jobs to fill. This just happened to me in a salsa group, where there was an expectation that the door would handle itself with a volunteer, and that the promoter shouldn't get a cut for doing the work of finding jobs, and booking the band. A discussion of the realities of playing for pay, needs to be held up front. As for accepting low wages... that issue is all over the board. I once played in a 13 pc Colombian band... we got many gigs, for acceptable money, but sometimes the travel involved was daunting.

 

[zoonose]

A bar in my area is looking for a band to play for beer on St. Patrick's Day...

 

[TheReceder]

A bar in my area is looking for a band to play for beer on St. Patrick's Day...

If I was a little younger... I knew a few musicians that could probably drink there fill by the second set and stagger around the stage for the rest of the night.

In the end... the bar would have got what it paid for.

 

[TheReceder]

It's always been about the bottom line. The club owner doesn't give a flying fog how good or bad the band is as long as the cash register is ringing. It's commerce, not art. That's the way it is now; that's the way it has ALWAYS been. Best get used to it. The first question they are gonna ask you is "what's your following", which translates to "how many asses are you gonna put in the seats." Act accordingly.

Some musicians sell music. Most of us sell beer.

 

[Pops OB]

If I was a little younger... I knew a few musicians that could probably drink there fill by the second set and stagger around the stage for the rest of the night.

In the end... the bar would have got what it paid for.

Younger? My friends are 64-65, who start drinking before the gig, drink during the gig, drink and vape between sets, (one of them used to double-fist his drinks back to his drum set), then finish off smoking more before heading off to eat.

And the band is still tight!

 

[TheReceder]

Younger? My friends are 64-65, who start drinking before the gig, drink during the gig, drink and vape between sets, (one of them used to double-fist his drinks back to his drum set), then finish off smoking more before heading off to eat.

And the band is still tight!

Not sure If I'd say they were lucky or not... over the years the morning after has gotten a lot crueler to this old man

 

[DJ Bebop]

Younger? My friends are 64-65, who start drinking before the gig, drink during the gig, drink and vape between sets, (one of them used to double-fist his drinks back to his drum set), then finish off smoking more before heading off to eat.

And the band is still tight!

I was told that if you vape or indulge at rehearsal, you better do it at the gig also :Ol

 

[MasterG]

The local ,originals only,bar around here called the Buzzbin is where all the suck lives. In all the times Ive been there I mustve seen 400 to 500 bands...3 or 4 a night...Ive seen maybe 10 that actualy had any sense of sounding musical. Horrible horrible bands from all over the country for nothing but selling maybe a tshirt or a cd and whatever pennies somebody threw in a tip jar. Look it up on Youtube. Plenty of vids of the bands that come through there. I mean its like theyve never heard or saw a picture of themselves. Dont know where I was going with this but...dang...there are some real hacks out. More than I ever thought.

 

[Mike Mike08]

I've mostly played for free drinks and a pack a smokes. Not worried about money if I want booze and cigs anyways, it's just an extra bonus to be able to jam and entertain people. But I've seen plenty of bars that have DJs before, in-between, and after live sets, why not share the stage? It's all for the music.

 

[redhouserocks]

My band plays about 6 times a month now ... used to be more until someone got married! We play minimum 400 bucks for cool, repeating gigs ... and up to 2,000 bucks for weddings where people want a rock band. I'm never going to NOT do a gig because some other musician thinks we are doing it too cheap. Supply and Demand ... get better, get better known, etc. Weird post to be honest.

 

[BAG]

Horse hockey. Live bands attract patrons, patrons spend money on drinks, the house pockets the money. If the band pulls in 100 extra customers that wouldn't have shown up otherwise and the average bill is $30 each, that's an extra $3,000 that the bar made because of the band. If they can't cough up a bare minimum of $500 its because they are greedy and don't mind screwing the musicians. Besides, they could always have a cover charge when there's a live band. It doesn't even have to be very much. To lowball it, say there are only 200 customers that night and the cover charge is a measley $5. that's $1,000 right there, in addition to the liquor sales.

You've never owned or managed a bar have you? Either that or you live in an area that had a very rare, very active and large live music following.
It is a rare band that pulls 100 more people than would normally be at a bar. And its a very rare venue where people will happily pay a cover charge unless you're already known for very good music....... and if you are then you're already paying well in excess of $500 for any band.

 

[RustyAxe]

It has long been my dream to open up a really good club with live music. My club will have 3 stages with a common dance floor. I most certainly will care about the music and will be known as the best local live music venue in the world.
The money will follow.

A friend of mine did just this, in New Haven CT. Years of endless work, and little to show for it, barely able to keep a head above water. He finally threw in the towel, sold out to a couple of local promoters who are finding out it isn't as profitable as they expected. The music business is no field of dreams.

 

[ToddSS]

Our band started playing out for what ever we could get (usually $300- $400) that got us in the door and in front of people. We eventually built up a fan base that would consistently attend our gigs. We were then able to increase our price, as the venue managers new they would profit when we played. Our band also hosted an open mic night once a week for $200 at our favorite watering hole. One band member and The house pa was all we required for this. At the end of the day, it’s what ever the market wil bare. No bad feelings for anyone doing what they have to do to play in front of people.