Some video from last night's gig in a bar in Menifee, CA.
The video tells all, any constructive criticism? I can take it.
The video tells all, any constructive criticism? I can take it.
Last edited:
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Double Bass Critique my band
- Thread starter Holdsg
- Start date
I only listened to the first recording. I thought, not bad, maybe about average for a performing band. Here's what I think you can do to improve, since you asked:
1) count off the tunes. I didn't hear the leader didn't do that and you all joined in roughly on time - but roughly is roughly and not crisp - and the tempo increased dramatically after everyone was in. Either the band leader needs to learn to count the tune at the correct tempo, or IMO, you'd be better served sticking with the initial tempo. Counting tunes is a skill that takes practice in my experience. I know I had to practice it.
2) get some lessons from a classical bassist. You're intonation is pretty good but your technique isn't doing you any favors. I think you'll find the bass easier to play and more fun with some good guidance on consensus technique - right hand down at the end of the bridge, full meat of the finger, left hand with intended shifts, good hand form, bass not so it's side is touching you full on, etc. If you really want to improve, start playing with a bow because that makes the intonation much easier to hear, assuming that you don't already.
3) add a bridge/solo to the piece to better engage the audience with the melody. I found the tune very repetitive the way it was and felt it could really use a "middle 8" or longer break.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think you guys are bad. In a bar, I'd probably leave because the band isn't anything special, but I can see lots of folks sitting through your set without complaint - of course, they've got a drink in their hand and a girl in their eye.
1) count off the tunes. I didn't hear the leader didn't do that and you all joined in roughly on time - but roughly is roughly and not crisp - and the tempo increased dramatically after everyone was in. Either the band leader needs to learn to count the tune at the correct tempo, or IMO, you'd be better served sticking with the initial tempo. Counting tunes is a skill that takes practice in my experience. I know I had to practice it.
2) get some lessons from a classical bassist. You're intonation is pretty good but your technique isn't doing you any favors. I think you'll find the bass easier to play and more fun with some good guidance on consensus technique - right hand down at the end of the bridge, full meat of the finger, left hand with intended shifts, good hand form, bass not so it's side is touching you full on, etc. If you really want to improve, start playing with a bow because that makes the intonation much easier to hear, assuming that you don't already.
3) add a bridge/solo to the piece to better engage the audience with the melody. I found the tune very repetitive the way it was and felt it could really use a "middle 8" or longer break.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think you guys are bad. In a bar, I'd probably leave because the band isn't anything special, but I can see lots of folks sitting through your set without complaint - of course, they've got a drink in their hand and a girl in their eye.
I think you could get a lot more sound out of the bass, which would help the overall cohesion and sound of the band.
Looking at the video (camera angles can be misleading) it looks like you've got the bass up pretty high. I would suggest:
- rotate the bass about the axis of the end pin so the edge of the back is digging into your side, rather than the ribs being flat against you (in other words, so the top of the bass is facing less toward you than you have it) - this will allow you the proper angle for a good solid pizz, plus allow you to finger notes on the E string without distorting your left hand position.
- Bring the bass more vertical
- Lower the bass so the nut is about eyebrow height
- then you can play more open strings and half-first position stopped notes, which will resonate more
- bring your right hand down to the end of the fingerboard (arm only slightly bent)
- Index finger pointing down at the floor, pull the string with the side of the index finger with the index finger almost parallel to the string, not perpendicular
- Stick with one finger pizz for now, till you can drop soft huge massive notes with one finger, then gradually introduce two fingers into the mix for really fast stuff (check out Charles Mingus for an example of how fast you can play with one finger before you need to resort to alternating finger technique)
- I would recommend working some on the traditional left hand technique to minimize fatigue and enable rapid accurate shifts.
With the changes outlined, you can use the natural leverage of your body to get a good big sound and work with the bass rather than fighting it.
Once you get the sound production on a more stable basis, I think you could put more "point" or "attack" into the bass notes to help keep the band sound tight. When I find a band is getting rhythmically a little vague, as I hear occasionally in your videos, I also will often delete any walk-up or lead-in phrases and concentrate on just playing a very clear note on beats 1 and 3.
Looking at the video (camera angles can be misleading) it looks like you've got the bass up pretty high. I would suggest:
- rotate the bass about the axis of the end pin so the edge of the back is digging into your side, rather than the ribs being flat against you (in other words, so the top of the bass is facing less toward you than you have it) - this will allow you the proper angle for a good solid pizz, plus allow you to finger notes on the E string without distorting your left hand position.
- Bring the bass more vertical
- Lower the bass so the nut is about eyebrow height
- then you can play more open strings and half-first position stopped notes, which will resonate more
- bring your right hand down to the end of the fingerboard (arm only slightly bent)
- Index finger pointing down at the floor, pull the string with the side of the index finger with the index finger almost parallel to the string, not perpendicular
- Stick with one finger pizz for now, till you can drop soft huge massive notes with one finger, then gradually introduce two fingers into the mix for really fast stuff (check out Charles Mingus for an example of how fast you can play with one finger before you need to resort to alternating finger technique)
- I would recommend working some on the traditional left hand technique to minimize fatigue and enable rapid accurate shifts.
With the changes outlined, you can use the natural leverage of your body to get a good big sound and work with the bass rather than fighting it.
Once you get the sound production on a more stable basis, I think you could put more "point" or "attack" into the bass notes to help keep the band sound tight. When I find a band is getting rhythmically a little vague, as I hear occasionally in your videos, I also will often delete any walk-up or lead-in phrases and concentrate on just playing a very clear note on beats 1 and 3.
appreciate the feedback, really I do.
I was doing a bit of experimentation with my sound at that gig.
First set (which the clips were from) was bass just with my amp. Second set was DI'd thru the PA plus my amp at a reduced stage volume.
Sound guy during sound check kept telling me to turn up (wasn't projecting enough). But I was worried I was overpowering the guys on stage, so I ended up thinking I was too loud.
This led me to playing pretty light on the strings, and in turn meant I was playing higher on the neck than usual, and I was not digging in on purpose.
I am very familiar with the index finger down approach for RH technique, and that's how I usually play.
Once we switched and went thru DI, it was much better, both at projecting and the lower stage volume was appreciated by the guys (particularly the singer/mando player) and I was able to pluck more naturally.
You learn each gig, right?
As to intonation, yeah, its a thing I need to keep working on. I know it.
I was doing a bit of experimentation with my sound at that gig.
First set (which the clips were from) was bass just with my amp. Second set was DI'd thru the PA plus my amp at a reduced stage volume.
Sound guy during sound check kept telling me to turn up (wasn't projecting enough). But I was worried I was overpowering the guys on stage, so I ended up thinking I was too loud.
This led me to playing pretty light on the strings, and in turn meant I was playing higher on the neck than usual, and I was not digging in on purpose.
I am very familiar with the index finger down approach for RH technique, and that's how I usually play.
Once we switched and went thru DI, it was much better, both at projecting and the lower stage volume was appreciated by the guys (particularly the singer/mando player) and I was able to pluck more naturally.
You learn each gig, right?
As to intonation, yeah, its a thing I need to keep working on. I know it.
I try not to be to critical of stuff I hear youtube with audible conversations and glasses clanging during the music. You guys sound fine in that context. I'm not gonna criticize any tonal variations I hear on something like that.
My only advise would be to look for places to play that appreciate bluegrass. That looks like a sports bar where people are probably used to hearing top 40 cover bands. I've been in that scenario before.
I agree that your technique could use some improvement, but bluegrass bass players don't have to be Ray Brown to get the job done either. It all depends on what your goals are as a double bassist. However your right hand technique could probably be adjusted with just a little bit of instruction, and in turn produce a much fuller sound from the instrument IMO.
Keep plucking.
My only advise would be to look for places to play that appreciate bluegrass. That looks like a sports bar where people are probably used to hearing top 40 cover bands. I've been in that scenario before.
I agree that your technique could use some improvement, but bluegrass bass players don't have to be Ray Brown to get the job done either. It all depends on what your goals are as a double bassist. However your right hand technique could probably be adjusted with just a little bit of instruction, and in turn produce a much fuller sound from the instrument IMO.
Keep plucking.
The Dodgers jersey in the background is a definite no-no. That can permanently scar your reputation, particularly since it'll be all over the Internet.
The other advice posted above is right on target. Posture and a stronger right hand will make a lot of difference.
The other advice posted above is right on target. Posture and a stronger right hand will make a lot of difference.
As a former resident of Menifee, the stage looks vaguely familiar. I haven't been back there in over 12 years. Was the Pitstop Pub formerly known as The Ponderosa. As far as critiquing the band goes, you guts are all competent musicians. The previous posts pretty much cover any improvements you could make.
