Cross-Over (Crossover or Splitter) pedals

[Rooster009]

Yes split parallel and I use the adjustable HPF and LPF of the EQ to form a bandpass xover on the overdrives. I generally like the HPF set around 285hz and the LPF varies depending on type of drive. Usually around 2khz-4khz. Then after the channels are mixed back together and just before the outputs I deploy another bandpass set at 55hz and 6khz for the makeshift cab sim

 

[31HZ]

This thread is blowing my mind. So much good info; so much to learn.

 

[BurningSkies]

I kind of wish my ES-5 had EQ options in the mixer. One of my goals tonight is to create a patch that got my Mantic Flex Pro parallel with clean bass beneath...the Flex by nature is more of a guitar effect and really passes nothing below about 500hz. It will do parallel effects (split signal into multiple paths and process then 'mix' back together), but it would be great if it had crossover potential.

 

[Rooster009]

I suggest putting your overdrives in a loop with a bandpass xover pedal if you can find one. The GT-10b was really way ahead of its time in this regard and others. Any overdrives that you thought was just to fizzy up top, you can roll the LPF back until they stop being to fizzy without losing clarity, or go even farther and use just the meat and potatoes portion of the drive signal to get just that tube warmth portion to mix with your clean signal. Add in the hpf on the drive loop and suddenly your punch and girth comes back when mixed with the clean signal. I'm guessing something like the boss LS2 would make the channel switching possible.

When I get home I'll try to make a short video of the possibilities with the GT-10b

 

[tekhedd]

I was wondering when you'd show up. I think generally speaking 'top mount' is the option that is most favored these days...but given you have 4 different 1/4" jacks and a power in, that's sort of untenable. The 'slickest' implementation I've seen is the one that Taylor Livingston (Iron Ether) has worked...he's reduced the loop to a stereo jack and uses an insert cable (standard 'Y' cable (one side is send, the other side is return)). So you have 3 plugs instead of 4.

Lol I'm usually around here somewhere, biting my tongue. : )

I've also wondered why we don't see any mini 1/8" jacks, as has been popular in mini modulars, but...yeah I don't think that'd fly on stage. I don't mess with anything other than simple 1/4" mono jacks on my own board, so I sure can't see anyone else putting up with it. I like the old flat-head right angle plugs, but when you put the jacks too close together you can't use those. It looks like that's a habit I'll have to give up, since a lot of newer pedals have tight spacing.

I suppose you could put all the jacks on one side, but that makes the cabling even worse. At least it saves some space though. Top-of-pedal jacks are trendy, but make it cramped for the controls. It's a puzzle really.


On the subject of "things to loop", my cross/blend "color loop" this month is "various envelope filters" >> Red Panda Particle >> vintage PH-1r. With a highpass blend, the phaser and delay can't turn the tone into total mud, and it puts a very interesting tail on the notes. I got into crossovers because I was/am chasing the perfect dirty grind, but I'm rediscovering my love for timebased and tone-shaping effects now.

(The PH-1r really needs a rebuild though. Poor thing, the light barely even comes on now.)

 

[BurningSkies]

Lol I'm usually around here somewhere, biting my tongue. : )

I've also wondered why we don't see any mini 1/8" jacks, as has been popular in mini modulars, but...yeah I don't think that'd fly on stage. I don't mess with anything other than simple 1/4" mono jacks on my own board, so I sure can't see anyone else putting up with it. I like the old flat-head right angle plugs, but when you put the jacks too close together you can't use those. It looks like that's a habit I'll have to give up, since a lot of newer pedals have tight spacing.

I suppose you could put all the jacks on one side, but that makes the cabling even worse. At least it saves some space though. Top-of-pedal jacks are trendy, but make it cramped for the controls. It's a puzzle really.


On the subject of "things to loop", my cross/blend "color loop" this month is "various envelope filters" >> Red Panda Particle >> vintage PH-1r. With a highpass blend, the phaser and delay can't turn the tone into total mud, and it puts a very interesting tail on the notes. I got into crossovers because I was/am chasing the perfect dirty grind, but I'm rediscovering my love for timebased and tone-shaping effects now.

(The PH-1r really needs a rebuild though. Poor thing, the light barely even comes on now.)

Yeah, the 1/8th would be a non-starter for most people. I also make my own cables, and have no desire to tackle that, and I think people look at them as not pro-grade. I would guess that most musicians would count it out altogether. I think wonky layout will always be an issue when it comes to any pedal that hubs between 4 and 6 connections. I still think Taylor (IE) has the slickest solution as pro-grade insert cables are readily available.

I spent the evening doing MIDI programming for my ES-5 and getting around on my Dr. Scientist Atmosphere reverb. If you want to see a 'next level' pedal...that's one to look at. I have a Red Panda Particle (original version) as it was just too tweaky to take out on the road.

 

[HoochfromP]

Fusion Blender by Umbrella Company is a great piece of kit, not too real estate consuming.

 

[BurningSkies]

Fusion Blender by Umbrella Company is a great piece of kit, not too real estate consuming.

This is another that skins the animal in a slightly different way.

Compact (you'll have to run it sideways if you prefer standard pedal placement on a board. Lets you choose either hp/lp for each loop then adjust frequency of that loop, run both, or just one side.

The company is Japanese, so there may be some hoops to jump through to order, though it looks like it turns up on Reverb, etc. in the $200 range, which really is a decent price point.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[bass.slinger]

If any one is interested, I just ordered a custom buffer configuration from Saturnworks that has a footswitch to reverse phase for those pedals in my HF loop that change the phase when engaged. 1590A enclosure and a two color LED for state. Buffer is always on.

Great people to deal with.

 

[BurningSkies]

If any one is interested, I just ordered a custom buffer configuration from Saturnworks that has a footswitch to reverse phase for those pedals in my HF loop that change the phase when engaged. 1590A enclosure and a two color LED for state. Buffer is always on.

Great people to deal with.

Nice...Yeah, I've had them make stuff too...good to work with.

 

[bass.slinger]

Nice...Yeah, I've had them make stuff too...good to work with.

Still liking the Sugar Britches? I am in the process of building three boards and would like a smaller crossover pedal for the medium-sized board. I would like to use the Brimstone Ouroboros for the large board (along with their crossover distortion pedals - sorry to see them no longer making pedals - I love their stuff).

The three boards are:

1. Battery-powered Pedaltrain Nano with tuner, octave, comp, amp emulator - completed.
2. Pedaltrain Jr with a few more pedals (adding fuzz, modulation, LPF, synth, etc.)
3. Big board (most likely two with the works (multiple synth, dirt, mod, whammy, etc.)

 

[BurningSkies]

Still liking the Sugar Britches? I am in the process of building three boards and would like a smaller crossover pedal for the medium-sized board. I would like to use the Brimstone Ouroboros for the large board (along with their crossover distortion pedals - sorry to see them no longer making pedals - I love their stuff).

The three boards are:

1. Battery-powered Pedaltrain Nano with tuner, octave, comp, amp emulator - completed.
2. Pedaltrain Jr with a few more pedals (adding fuzz, modulation, LPF, synth, etc.)
3. Big board (most likely two with the works (multiple synth, dirt, mod, whammy, etc.)

Yeah, I think it's a well executed pedal. Though, I have to say that it's not currently on my board since I went to streamline and MIDI integrate some of my other stuff. I like that it has a phase switch on it, I do think it's pretty clean and straightforward.

 

[bass.slinger]

Yeah, I think it's a well executed pedal. Though, I have to say that it's not currently on my board since I went to streamline and MIDI integrate some of my other stuff. I like that it has a phase switch on it, I do think it's pretty clean and straightforward.

Did you ever find out the crossover slope?

 

[BurningSkies]

Did you ever find out the crossover slope?

I didn't pursue. You could ask the maker though, he's here on TB as well as on Reverb.

 

[Bassgeer]

Interesting topic! I have been trying to find a 3 way crossover as I would like to process my mids and highs separately rather than having the mids split between a high band and a low band as is the case with 2 way crossovers. The only thing I can find is rack mounted units, which wouldn't be a problem, but I believe they all operate at line level as opposed to instrument level, which makes it a pain to use them with pedals.

Curious if anyone has any additional advice or thoughts, or knows of a good custom builder who could make something. It's unfortunate that Josh Broughton isn't doing custom work anymore because his stuff is excellent!

 

[BurningSkies]

Interesting topic! I have been trying to find a 3 way crossover as I would like to process my mids and highs separately rather than having the mids split between a high band and a low band as is the case with 2 way crossovers. The only thing I can find is rack mounted units, which wouldn't be a problem, but I believe they all operate at line level as opposed to instrument level, which makes it a pain to use them with pedals.

Curious if anyone has any additional advice or thoughts, or knows of a good custom builder who could make something. It's unfortunate that Josh Broughton isn't doing custom work anymore because his stuff is excellent!

Talk to some of the other people mentioned here. John Kallas & @tekhedd may be able to help.

 

[Bassgeer]

Talk to some of the other people mentioned here. John Kallas & @tekhedd may be able to help.

Thanks, will do!

 

[tekhedd]

Interesting topic! I have been trying to find a 3 way crossover as I would like to process my mids and highs separately rather than having the mids split between a high band and a low band as is the case with 2 way crossovers. The only thing I can find is rack mounted units, which wouldn't be a problem, but I believe they all operate at line level as opposed to instrument level, which makes it a pain to use them with pedals.

Curious if anyone has any additional advice or thoughts, or knows of a good custom builder who could make something. It's unfortunate that Josh Broughton isn't doing custom work anymore because his stuff is excellent!

Thanks for tagging me in, it's an interesting problem. You know, a 3-way crossover is just two 2-way crossovers cascaded, right? So one solution is to simply use two 2-ways. Naturally the thingy I'm selling is much too bulky for this application, but I am prototyping some smaller thingies that might work. Maybe PM me?

There's also the issue of crossover steepness, that most people don't talk much about in pedalboard threads. The steeper the crossover, the more the phase gets mangled and the crossover gets complex quickly. I think first-order is actually better than higher-order crossovers for a blender scenario, but for a 3-way crossover you might want the bands to be more clearly defined, which suggests maybe second-order. That's a 180-degree phase twist, and you'll be cascading two of those to get a 3-way. It can be done, but you're starting to cram a lot of circuitry into a pedal-sized box, and making a 2nd or 3rd order sweepable makes the controls quite complex (translation: more expensive and difficult to source), which I assume is why some designs use separate knobs for high/lowpass instead of a single one.

So, maybe first consider whether first-order crossovers will suit your needs. If so, it's simple. If not, this could get much more interesting. :>

 

[monsterthompson]

Interesting topic! I have been trying to find a 3 way crossover as I would like to process my mids and highs separately rather than having the mids split between a high band and a low band as is the case with 2 way crossovers. The only thing I can find is rack mounted units, which wouldn't be a problem, but I believe they all operate at line level as opposed to instrument level, which makes it a pain to use them with pedals.

Curious if anyone has any additional advice or thoughts, or knows of a good custom builder who could make something. It's unfortunate that Josh Broughton isn't doing custom work anymore because his stuff is excellent!

VFE Klein Bottle is has 3 loops, each with a dedicated HPF/LPF pairing. You could possibly rig that to do what you're after.

 

[Wasnex]

Thanks for tagging me in, it's an interesting problem. You know, a 3-way crossover is just two 2-way crossovers cascaded, right? So one solution is to simply use two 2-ways. Naturally the thingy I'm selling is much too bulky for this application, but I am prototyping some smaller thingies that might work. Maybe PM me?

There's also the issue of crossover steepness, that most people don't talk much about in pedalboard threads. The steeper the crossover, the more the phase gets mangled and the crossover gets complex quickly. I think first-order is actually better than higher-order crossovers for a blender scenario, but for a 3-way crossover you might want the bands to be more clearly defined, which suggests maybe second-order. That's a 180-degree phase twist, and you'll be cascading two of those to get a 3-way. It can be done, but you're starting to cram a lot of circuitry into a pedal-sized box, and making a 2nd or 3rd order sweepable makes the controls quite complex (translation: more expensive and difficult to source), which I assume is why some designs use separate knobs for high/lowpass instead of a single one.

So, maybe first consider whether first-order crossovers will suit your needs. If so, it's simple. If not, this could get much more interesting. :>

Some crossover pedals give discrete frequency control over each filter section. I would think 1st order filters would be essential for this sort of setup. Using higher order filters would make more of a phasey mess at the knee of each filter.

If the controls for each paired high pass and and low pass sections are linked, I believe the phase issue should theoretically work itself out in the filters (with a built-in phase reverse as a required). So you could use higher even order filters without problems. Precision components would probably be required, so cost would go up.

Since all of the filters are mixed back down to one composite signal, I would not be surprised if a 1st order filter sounds best. I guess you have some fun experiments in front of you .