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Crossover frequency
- Thread starter mwbassace
- Start date
who manufactured the subwoofer? They should have a product spec sheet and recommended crossover frequency for their product. Likewise for your 15" top end boxes. Hopefully, both the subs and tops recommend a crossover freq that is somewhat close to each other. Yes, depending on the speakers being used, crossover points can range quite a bit. It really can depend on a lot of things.
Indoors I tend to cross lower say 80 hz or so, anything above 100 gets too boomy for me. Outdoors I tend to come up closer to 100.
i usually use the internal crossovers...makes life a little easier with self powered rigs, or even running a BI-Amped rig. but typically if i do ever get a chance to be able to adjust i tend to set it around 95Hz...
I was just wondering the same thing about my pa. Our band just got a new qsc k series rig. 2 k12s and 2 ksubs. Anyway, I would have just run them normal with the internal filters doing the crossing over but our guitar player has talked to a sound guy that suggests that we crossover using a graphic eq and an aux on our board for our sub volume control. My guess is we would cut the eq in half somewhere and run that side to the mains and cut the other side in half and run to the subs? Does this sound right and if so, Where is that cut point?
I'm a fan of aux fed subs but that isn't the way to go about it... You need a stereo crossover. My mains come in on the left channel and are routed directly to the mid/signal path. The Aux mix that holds those channels that I want sub support for come in on the right and are routed to the sub, then the mid high.
The idea is that bass and kick, etc are full range. Voices, guitars, etc bypass the sub and so you lose the boom transmitted through mic stands, acoustic instruments and rumbly stages at high vol. It works great to mitigate acoustic guitar feedback... It also requires very careful tuning of the crossover slopes and points. The better the crossover, the better... I use BSS MiniDrives as they allow for super steep slopes and time alignment. At $600 a pop used they were the least expensive route i could determine that would do a good job at it... I wouldn't bother with something like the DBx 233/4. Fixed slope and you're going to end up with a nasty spot some where in the cross... It would give you an idea of how it works though...
In my small system, which is a K series setup, I use the on k series as it was designed. Tops are set to Ext sub. For 90 % of what my partner in sound and I do, that works just fine... Of your board will allow it, you might be better off working with independent channel hi pass settings. You can get really close to the same results. Doing it using an overall EQ to whack the lows on one side and highs on the other can lead to some nasty sounding phase issues... An eq is not a crossover and a crossover is not an eq though each can be misapplied...
The idea is that bass and kick, etc are full range. Voices, guitars, etc bypass the sub and so you lose the boom transmitted through mic stands, acoustic instruments and rumbly stages at high vol. It works great to mitigate acoustic guitar feedback... It also requires very careful tuning of the crossover slopes and points. The better the crossover, the better... I use BSS MiniDrives as they allow for super steep slopes and time alignment. At $600 a pop used they were the least expensive route i could determine that would do a good job at it... I wouldn't bother with something like the DBx 233/4. Fixed slope and you're going to end up with a nasty spot some where in the cross... It would give you an idea of how it works though...
In my small system, which is a K series setup, I use the on k series as it was designed. Tops are set to Ext sub. For 90 % of what my partner in sound and I do, that works just fine... Of your board will allow it, you might be better off working with independent channel hi pass settings. You can get really close to the same results. Doing it using an overall EQ to whack the lows on one side and highs on the other can lead to some nasty sounding phase issues... An eq is not a crossover and a crossover is not an eq though each can be misapplied...
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If your mixer has low cuts you don't need all that messing about aux feeding subs. Balance your subs and EQ your inputs rather than EQ'ing everything via the sub/main power levels.
100hz is as high as you want to cross, above that starts to get directional. You want the sub to be "omnipresent" not thumping "over there".
100hz is as high as you want to cross, above that starts to get directional. You want the sub to be "omnipresent" not thumping "over there".
Low cuts roll off, aux fed subs are a brick wall if you have the right crossover... In loud festival settings, it can be a great tool. IMO, it really does make a difference however that difference might accrue more to the sound company crowd than general band guys. You'll note that my small system, which is what my actual band uses most of the time does not use aux fed subs and does rely on the hpf's built into the SL board we use.
... And it isn't like my company won't use the k system if it can. Lord knows I'm not addicted to rolling multiple power racks if I don't have to. Glad I can power up a large space but I'm not carrying more than I have to if at all possible. The K series stuff sounds great AS DESIGNED and is stupid easy to use.
If I go back a couple of posts to dustybottom's post. Frankly the sound guy making that suggestion was all wet IMO.
So just in case that wasn't clear... This sound guy, who is an advocate for aux fed subs at the Sound Company level and who actually owns and uses K10's and Ksubs in both the sound company and band contexts says - do not take that guys advice. Use the K series setup as it was designed, set the K12 switch to Ext Sub. Run a line from the board to each sub and from each side's sub to it's respective top. I personally avoid the Deep Switch on the sub. The kSub sounds nice on it's own though it is pretty tight and not a DJ style 'flabby' 18 kind of sound. The set hpf's where necessary on your board and you are good to go on almost zero setup time.
... And it isn't like my company won't use the k system if it can. Lord knows I'm not addicted to rolling multiple power racks if I don't have to. Glad I can power up a large space but I'm not carrying more than I have to if at all possible. The K series stuff sounds great AS DESIGNED and is stupid easy to use.
If I go back a couple of posts to dustybottom's post. Frankly the sound guy making that suggestion was all wet IMO.
So just in case that wasn't clear... This sound guy, who is an advocate for aux fed subs at the Sound Company level and who actually owns and uses K10's and Ksubs in both the sound company and band contexts says - do not take that guys advice. Use the K series setup as it was designed, set the K12 switch to Ext Sub. Run a line from the board to each sub and from each side's sub to it's respective top. I personally avoid the Deep Switch on the sub. The kSub sounds nice on it's own though it is pretty tight and not a DJ style 'flabby' 18 kind of sound. The set hpf's where necessary on your board and you are good to go on almost zero setup time.
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I do the same: run the 100 hz filter on all the vox channels and instrument channels as required. My xover is set at 40-100 hz for the subs. Seems the industry standard default is 40 hz on GEQ's and the like.
Riis
Sidetracked... In the OP's scenario, 80 to 120 might be about right. By that I mean that the venue itself is a variable to be considered. In the case of the K series stuff we've been talking about, the crossover is built in. If you are running passive boxes, amps and an external crossover then start with some bass heavy program material you know well and start listening, adjusting, wash, rinse, repeat as necessary...
I like some modern reggae as the bass is heavy and deep. Some of ziggy's stuff like Joy and Blues... If there is a low end issue in a space, I can usually find it with that.
If it's a big deal I use SMAART but that is a whole 'nuther topic...
I like some modern reggae as the bass is heavy and deep. Some of ziggy's stuff like Joy and Blues... If there is a low end issue in a space, I can usually find it with that.
If it's a big deal I use SMAART but that is a whole 'nuther topic...
I'm the bass player and sound man for my bands. Experience has forced me to protect my sound space. All voice and instrument that goes through the board (except the bass) gets the low filter turned on.
wmhill
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- Aug 20, 2012
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we have a pair of powered Mackies (w/15s)- we do 120 at the crossover....feels (and sounds) a bit more open. Not all super low rumble, has some nice punch to it at a very reasonable volume.
Thanks guys. Sorry I've been on OT @ work. We play mostly small to medium bars & occasional outdoor gigs, the drummer runs/owns the PA & crosses-over at 100 Hz. I'm always in the PA with the kick. I'm curious if crossing over @ 80 Hz would adversly effect the 1st harmonic of an open E (or say an open A's 1st harmonic @ 110 Hz)? I was wanting to start an open dialague on this, general & specific applications, etc.
4mal, I've been wanting to replace our old HEAVY PA & have suggested the K-series. We use passive cabs w/a 2 way mono crossover, but you've got me curious about the aux fed thing. So if I understand right, the right channel goes to the sub AND the top boxes? We are blessed and cursed with the guitarist, he's not in the PA, so that means he's loud. But he plays with a fair amount of lows, so not being in the PA means less chance of mud. Hence my interest in the "brick wall" aspect of aux fed subs, & reducing his volume.
