Custom? Frankenbass? PartsBass?

[WarriorJoe7]

So you can make a bass custom FOR YOURSELF then sell it FOR YOURSELF to someone else as custom? Sorry dude that's cheating. It's different when you have someone else make a one off for you and call it custom. I agree that if you make it for yourself and call it customized that would be OK. But there would be something wrong with calling it custom.

i think it's still a custom bass. it's not in his regular product line and made to one person's specifications. example: i have a friend who has an 80's fender custom shop fretless pj bass he had them custom make for him. he is trading me one of my basses for it. it will still be a custom bass as it was made to his specifications and it was not in the regular fender product line. it doesn't stop being a custom bass just because it becomes mine. it will always be a custom fender.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

THATS BS. I've never played a gig? Hmmmm and my band didn't just open up for N.A.S? And my friend here doesn't have an endorsement contract? And I've never been to a NAMM show (which is not open to the general public.) And I've never talked bass with Mike Lull and a whole host of other builders (in person.) I've never talked to Bill Bartolini in person about a bass idea and have and have him give me his personal number and say "I want to build the pickup for that." I don't appreciate you questioning my credibility especially when you take liberties to make assumptions which you know nothing about. How about this... Call up Adam Charette of APC repair who is a true luthier and has made custom made basses and guitars, and winds his own pickups, and ask him if I know anything about the industry. So yeah I am totally removed the industry (sarcasm.) I agree that I am not Ken Smith, or Nino Valenti, or even Jauqo is to the industry but to call me out the way you did is WRONG. If you want to make up stuff then go away.

Also I also have NO IDEA where you are quoting me on this "he says he's never played a gig and he built a bass once." Hmmmm I've never built a bass but I've assembled and/or repaired WAY more than a few. And the first part I already covered.

joe had mentioned something about what the industry regards as the proper terminology. as far as i can tell, joe is not in the industry in my opinion. he says he's never played a gig and he built a bass once; but i like him, he is a very nice gentleman. words like stock, customized, custom are industry terms. frankenbass, parts bass, mutt are laymen terms. snake, what terms you use pretty much defines how professional you want to be if you get serious about making and selling basses. there are no professional bass makers marketing parts basses, frankenbasses, muts and the like.

R&D does not differentiate a stock vs. custom bass vs. parts bass, either. R&D goes into stock basses even more so, and that R&D transfers to the custom bass, the bass the manufacturer makes for one particular customer according to his or her unique wishes. And, snake is doing the sweat it takes to make his custom bass; he's actually getting off his duff and making one, and i applaud that. R&D, or lack thereof, does not disqualify him.

i'm new to TB, but it seems like there are bassicially two type of posters on here: bass players and bass owners. bass players talk more about the music they play, bass owners tend to talk more about the basses and the gear they own because they really don't play. a bass to them is like a set of golf clubs or a skateboard. basses are not toys; many of us pay mortgages and feed babies with our basses. to tell the difference, just open someone's profile. if the bassist lists people they play with with, then most likely really a player. but too often i see huge lists of gear, and no mention of who they're playing with... bass owner. (jimmy is really a player, but i also have to say i covet his two B15N's). i didn't make the rules, but the resume or bio is what separates the men from the guys who should wear plaid skirts. can you call yourself a surgeon if you've never done a surgery?

there is also a difference between professional and amatuer bassists. i'm all for anyone who wants to play bass for whatever reason whether fun or profit. even as professionals, it should be fun or we're not doing our job, but any professional knows it's not always fun. i wish every human being would take the time to try to have fun playing music. being professional is not what it's all about. but if you want to be in the music industry, listen to those who are really in it. there is nothing like the advice from an amateur who knows little or nothing to squelch any professional aspirations you may have. we all start somewhere, but we never really "arrive." the brass ring is not for other people, it's for you. get after it if you want it badly enough and are willing to do the things it takes to get there.

not to be overly critical, but so far, we've gotten two nonsensical elements of what makes a bass custom, parts bass or whatever: whether the parts are "overseas" or not, and the level of R&D, both of which have nothing to do with the price of crack in alaska.

hopefully snake is not posting anymore because he got off the computer long enough to actually do something, and i wish him luck on his new custom, hand built bass.

just my opinion.

 

[GlennW]

Is this a custom thread, a mutt thread, or a frankenthread?

 

[WarriorJoe7]

Yes, you're buying parts and customizing the bass to your liking.

Hey Nino, I agree with you kind of, so he could turn around and sell the bass as customized

However if you build something customized FOR YOURSELF and then turn around and sell it FOR YOURSELF to SOMEONE ELSE you can call it custom? Isn't that cheating? If that were so I could build a bunch of customized basses to my spec (even identical ones) and throw them up on a website and say they are custom basses. (Oh yeah I know where this is going. Someone is going to think well just do the minimum, allow them to change the color of the hardware or something and now it is custom. There is just something shady about doing the least possible in order to get the best use of words out of it.)

You could call it customized though and I wouldn't have a problem with that. When people read that they will know what it really means.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

That's why I said AMERICAN BRANDED instruments. So a guy in Japan makes a bass with Japanese parts. He can still be custom. It really depends on other things. Does G&L use overseas tribute bodies in their custom shop basses? I don't think so. If they did though they would have to put "made in Korea" on it; they could also add assembled or crafted in the USA but thats beside the point. I know for a fact that by law they would have to put "made in Korea." If there wasn't a law that said that somewhere then you just know that no toy companies would have "made in China" stickers on the toys they were selling after that lead paint incident. They have them on there because they have to. So how many American brand custom instruments can you name that say "made in Korea" on them. Name one!

btw, lakland will build you a custom bass with "overseas" parts. if a guy in japan builds you a bass from scratch, those would be "overseas" parts, too, but it would still be a custom bass since he made a bass according to what you want. i don't see the relevance of "overseas parts" and prohibition of the word "custom." and i don't see how customized means overseas parts are OK. i guess i'm not getting that connection. just my opinion. if you want to know how the industry sees it, you may want to talk to someone in the industry.

the SX basses that are customized are existing basses that were mod'ed, and, like i said before, you're beyond that.

on hand built vs. hand made: hand made is making the parts from scratch from wood stock. i think of hand built as something not made by a robot, a guy with a screwdriver at least.

so snake, i'm thinking you're making a custom, hand built bass.

 

[Ten Four One]

Is this a custom thread, a mutt thread, or a frankenthread?

I'd have to say it's a myrrhthread judging by the fact that it's turned into a holy war.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

I am starting to get the impression that this guy wants to undermine me because of some things I said in another thread. I could be wrong and it could be coincidence, but it's natural for me to be suspicious since what he said about me was COMPLETELY fabricated. I guess we'll see. If he trolls around other threads I happen to be in then we'll know that he is a troll and then he will get warned by the mods.

I'd have to say it's a myrrhthread judging by the fact that it's turned into a holy war.

 

[Nino Valenti]

Hey Nino, I agree with you kind of, so he could turn around and sell the bass as customized

I don't see the difference.

However if you build something customized FOR YOURSELF and then turn around and sell it FOR YOURSELF to SOMEONE ELSE you can call it custom? Isn't that cheating?

Who are we cheating? It started out as a custom built bass... why should that change if the owner sells it? Just because the new owner didn't specify the custom specs himself, they were custom specs to begin with.

If that were so I could build a bunch of customized basses to my spec (even identical ones) and throw them up on a website and say they are custom basses. (Oh yeah I know where this is going. Someone is going to think well just do the minimum, allow them to change the color of the hardware or something and now it is custom. There is just something shady about doing the least possible in order to get the best use of words out of it.)

The Fender Custom shop does this all the time. Custom Shop NOS's. Every one is identical and they're all custom basses. built by the Custom shop.

You could call it customized though and I wouldn't have a problem with that. When people read that they will know what it really means.

Again, I don't see a difference between customized and custom.

 

[fattyj]

i think you could consider it a frankenbass and a parts bass...but in my opinion i would call it a frankenbass.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

OK you are right Nino, but from now on when I see the word custom it will no longer mean anything to me. Too bad others will be decieved into thinking that something is more than it actually is, since now anyone pretty much has free license to call any bass custom, because after all in the beginning it was custom to someone from their own point of view.

I just changed the steering wheel cover in my car. Would you like to buy my "custom" Honda Accord please? (sarcasm)

I don't see the difference.


Who are we cheating? It started out as a custom built bass... why should that change if the owner sells it? Just because the new owner didn't specify the custom specs himself, they were custom specs to begin with.


The Fender Custom shop does this all the time. Custom Shop NOS's. Every one is identical and they're all custom basses. built by the Custom shop.

Again, I don't see a difference between customized and custom.

 

[Ten Four One]

I am starting to get the impression that this guy wants to undermine me because of some things I said in another thread. I could be wrong and it could be coincidence, but it's natural for me to be suspicious since what he said about me was COMPLETELY fabricated. I guess we'll see. If he trolls around other threads I happen to be in then we'll know that he is a troll and then he will get warned by the mods.

I plonked him. I have zero interest in anything else he may want to say in this or any other thread - any intelligent person would recognize his attack ad hominem as such, so you can let it go. I've been dragged into (and started) plenty of mud slinging in my day & my hard won lesson is that it's just easier to walk away. Type up your nasty reply if you must, and then just close the window.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

Again, I don't see a difference between customized and custom.

I see how you could go both ways Nino. And I agree from a builder's perspective they are one and the same.

BUT think about the customer. Are they the same words and do they have the same exact connotations to the customer? I agree that I definitely can't speak for everyone, but up until this point I would say that they would have meant 2 different things to me. I am totally guessing but I would say that probably more than half of the people here would agree with me.

 

[herndonbassist]

FWIW, I have built several parts basses and guitars for myself for nothing but the pure enjoyment of tinkering with the parts and such. I just stated here that these were "parts basses and guitars" because that's what I ultimately sold them as (several of them here on this forum). I also specified in the listing(s) what parts they were made of and what I may have done to customize a particular part (ie... shaving the neck pocket, trimming the nut, moving the bridge etc).

I chose (and still choose) to call them parts instruments ONLY to emphasize the fact that I do not consider myself to be a professional builder, or even more so that I am not a luthier. I personally don't see anything morally unethical in deciding to call these "custom builds" as they were just that, being that they were built to some specification that was custom compared to what I could have walked in and purchased. I can see this going both ways, but if I were planning to build instruments and sell them, I would CERTAINLY call them custom, as "parts bass" hold some negative (or at the very least amateurish) connotation.

Custom to me implies that something was professionally built to a specification that wasn't exactly offered by a "standard" line. I see what Nino builds as "custom" being that I can't contact Fender (what I'm referring to here as the "standard" line) to get a 5 string Geddy Lee b/c they don't offer it in a "standard" line of instruments, but Nino's built several (well at least 1 that I know of). I would still consider Nino's to be "custom" even if he built 10 of them with the exact same parts. I know that this is just opinion, but I felt like sharing.

Lastly, of the basses and guitars that I built and sold or traded, some have been sold off here as "Custom-Built". I'm told that I did some unique things which is why they felt justified calling them "custom"... go figure.

-----------------

I just want to point out that I am a bass PLAYER and a bass OWNER... go figure with that too. I've played in numerous bands and gig fairly regularly

 

[Ten Four One]

Again, I don't see a difference between customized and custom.

Custom is "from scratch" customized is "bought but tweaked."

I may have customized a cake by writing "Happy Birthday Nino" on it, but it's not a custom cake that was made from scratch for you.

I'd take as far as to say that you don't apply the word "customized" to the instrument itself, but to the parts that were tweaked, like "A stock 1978 Ford Gremlin with the word Shotgun custom engraved on the passenger side door."

If the whole thing was custom - done on spec and to the customer's spec - then the whole thing is custom.

If it's an otherwise "stock" instrument - e.g. part of a manufacturer's existing lineup - with just, say, an extra J pickup, then that part is custom - the routing & wiring is custom, but the rest of the bass is stock. "It's a P bass with a custom J pickup."

If the bass was ordered as a PJ and the body was made for that customer, the fret size and material chosen and so froth, then the bass itself is custom.

Invalid Link Removed: made according to the specifications of an individual

My 0.00000002¢

 

[WarriorJoe7]

Invalid Link Removed: made according to the specifications of an individual

My 0.00000002¢

I would add and this would be for the commercial use of the word... Custom-made: made according to the specifications of an individual WHO IS NOT THE MAKER

But then again who am I? I am not connected to the industry at all (sarcasm)

Honestly though I am just trying to get rid of a loophole that others might take advantage of. I see nothing worng with that, even if I was just an ordinary citizen.

Well I think I've said all that I can say, and I don't think my mind will be changed (it could be with a good argument but I haven't seen that yet... the Fender atleast casts a shadow of doubt however I don't think even that is a good argument. I could go on but I am exiting the thread for various reasons.)

 

[Nino Valenti]

I just changed the steering wheel cover in my car. Would you like to buy my "custom" Honda Accord please? (sarcasm)

How does this apply to the OP? He's not buying a bass and putting a new set of strings on it and calling it custom... much like your implying. He's buying a raw neck and body and he's painting it and putting all the parts on it that he wants. It's not going to be like any standard bass that will be bought off the shelf at Guitar Center or Sam Ash. That to me, is custom.

 

[herndonbassist]

How does this apply to the OP? He's not buying a bass and putting a new set of strings on it and calling it custom... much like your implying. He's buying a raw neck and body and he's painting it and putting all the parts on it that he wants. It's not going to be like any standard bass that will be bought off the shelf at Guitar Center or Sam Ash. That to me, is custom.

+1 a much less long-winded version of what i was trying to say

 

[savit260]

Maybe I'm totaly wrong here, but to me, a "Custom Built Bass" may or may not have parts sourced from other manufactureres, and is assembled, prepped, adjusted, and tweaked with the expressed purpose of being sold to a customer, who ordered the bass in that configuration, for a proffit.

A "Parts Bass" seems to me at least, to be something assembled from parts, bought from retailers, and then assembled by a person who doesn't do that for a living, or for profit, for ones own personal use.

I personaly seem to draw the line at does the person who built the instrument do it for profit, or is it for your own personal use?

If Nino builds one for himself , I veiw that as a "Custom Build". He's a pro.

If I build one for myself with the same parts, it's a "Parts Bass" (required IMO)

Does that make sense?

 

[Snakeman1066]

Nino thanks for the replies....

Wow guys i didn't intend for this thread to turn into what it has...i was simply looking for an opinion on what i was about to attempt.

Obviously the origin of the body and the neck are suspect as they were bought from a junk parts dealer at a swap meet for less than $100.00...(Not to mention the neck looks an awful lot like the neck on my SX) however this guy does own a small shop and does repair and fix guitars, amps, basses, drums, keyboards, etc. (the crusty do it yourself type guy, he also plays in a local country band) the shop is way overcrowded with all kinds of stuff boxes full of parts everywhere tools all about etc. Everytime i go in there i spend hours just browsing throught the mess (he still maintains that he isn't quite sure where they came from) i almost certain that they are of Indonesian, Korean, or Chinese manufacture...simply based on price (I'll post pics when i get some time)....i really could care less to tell you the truth. Does an alder body made on a C & C machine in China any worse or any better than an alder body made on a C & C machine in California? I bought a Gotoh 201 bridge on line, along with a no name neck plate (probably chinese) no name knobs, (Also probably chinese), Wilkinson Tuners on line (Guitar Fetish). Dragonfire pick-ups in a P/J set (Ebay) (also probably chinese). I purchased the paint, poly, sand paper, sanding sealer, primer, at my local paint store. I already own a spray gun (I build custom(ized)...lol snake cages all the time and spray them with various finishes i have a few power tools and the know how to use them)....I bought a bunch of Rotosound Strings from a local dealer who stopped carrying them (awesome deal by the way), and lastly i found a cheap 2 layer P/J pickguard that fit the body, (for the most part in all the mess and the swap meet) When the rest of the parts all arrive via the mail, i will assemble said parts, put on the strings adjust the bridge and neck to my liking and hopefully it will all work and sound ok. I'm not much of a P fan which is why i went with the P/J configuration. Will I keep it...don't know yet. It's all going to be black on black with a few chrome parts (screws, jack, strap buttons) to set off the strings. May be ugly as hell....

Now background on me....Dad was a guitard (Dick Dale, Carl Perkins kind of band/Music) I picked up guitar first and played for a few years and realized i wasn't ever going to be a lead player. Dad played a Sabbath Record for me and I heard Geezers' bass solo (Basically) before the song N.I.B. and fell in love with the bass. Dad went with me and i picked out a B.C. Rich Mockinbird bass (NJ), because i liked the way it looked, felt, and sounded. (and it was the 80's) I played in various bands over the years and we got a chance to open for a few big names locally off and on for a few years but never made it anywhere really, I ended up working as a "roadie" for bands like Stuck Mojo, Manhole, Type o Negative, Danzig, etc. finally quit, went to school, got married had kids etc. pretty much gave up on all of it until a few years back, started playing again (as my wife is the niece of the lead guitartist of Hobbit who got me back into it) and now have a regualar weekly gig at a local bar playing mostly cover tunes and a few originals. Also play with a few friends in a side project which we are in the process of recording at home using pro tools, that and we play the odd party here and there. Over the course of all this, i have never really leaned how to much but basic adjustments and put on strings. Which leads me to the reason for this build....to see if i like it and want to do it again for fun and possibly profit....if nothing else, just to increase the size of my private collection (which numbers 6 at the moment)

really i just wanted to know what you guys would call it.....so that "if" and when i decided "if" i was going to let it go or not how to describe it and also how to describe it when i finally show it off

didn't mean to stir the pot. sorry!

And yes i was at band practice, so i missed all the fun...lol

 

[DavidCertain]

look, i am not a troll; i just came in here to help snake from getting confused by made up definitions from armchair bassists and luthiers. does the English language have to be this tough?

it's simple: "customize" means "to make custom." look it up.

nino knows what he's talking about, he's really in the industry as well obviously a very fine bassist if you've hit his links. he's qualified, over-qualified in fact, and i would find it hard to argue with him. and i think the two of us are in agreement as well as some others. but, in my opinion, joe keeps stirring the pot from a very questionable position.

once a custom bass, always a custom bass. to assert "that's cheating" to call a bass custom when it is resold is just an abomination of the English language. why does someone have to have such a negative and prohibitive, even snooty, attitude? to make himself feel like a somebody?

i still stand by my original assertion that snake is building a custom, hand built bass. if you want to belittle him or denegrate him, i just don't feel that this is very encouraging for a person who could become a positive contributor to the world of bass. it's out of line. i think we should encourage him. to tell him he's not allowed to call his bass custom, that there is some rule someone made up against it, is total hogwash.