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Double Bass Czardas practice techniques

D

davidzgeorge

Sep 18, 2007
90
1
38
Beltsville, MD
#1
hey guys, i'm working on Czardas (Bradetich's edition) and am having a lot of trouble with the top of the 2nd page. It's the section of C dominant 7th, followed by A dominant 7th. Lots of string crossings and an awkward fingering involving thumb. I've been doing rhythms and accents and similar patterns like that, but was wondering if anybody has any other ways to practice this section, or the piece in general.

thanks
 
#2
Slowly as possible, with a metronome. All of it. If you can't play it slowly, then you can't play it.

Also be sure that you've made the best possible choices as far as fingerings. Bradetitch's suggestions are usually fine, and what he suggests in this passage certainly works. However, it might not be what will work best for you. Experiment with some other possibilities and see what you might find. Do this slowly.
 
#8
professorslinky said:
Twice as fast is a bit much, I would aim for 1.5 the tempo that's when the real results show.
Click to expand...

No!! Negative!! False!! If you try to learn or practice any hard piece at tempo all you will learn how to do is at best hide all the crap your doing. You have to grind it slow for a long time until you can start crankin up the tempo a little. I wasted a long time on this piece trying to just play it, then made some real progress once I started to practice it slow and let my hands get some really muscle memory.
 
#9
I'm not trying to agree with slinky, but I don't practice parts slow-with a metronome- anymore. I just make sure I know where the pitches are(and the movement of the left hand) and if I know the fingering then it shouldn't take too long. What is the point of getting a metronome and then bumping a tempo up periodically if you already know the pitches placement on the fingerboard and the movement of your left hand?
 
#10
Sure, if you know where all the pitches are, ok. BUT slow practice with a metronome helps you learn to concentrate on so many other things as well: Bow placement, bow speed, articulation, TRUE note duration just to name a few. A friend once told me a story about when he asked Edgar Meyer how he practices the cello suites. He gave a sigh, set his metronome at 45 bpm and set out one sixteenth note per beat, all the way through prelude for suite 1. When he finished he set the metronome up ONE notch to 46...etc. He said you learn a lot of different fingerings that way. If it's good enough for Meyer, it's good enough for me.
 
#11
I haven't done Czardas yet, but when I do practice something (The Paganini Moses in Egypt for example which is what I'm working on now), I practice the fast parts as slow as possible (eight note = 40, ok that might be a little too slow but still) and then slowly build up speed. I got to say, this definitely helps. From what I heard, this is how Gary and Edgar practice, so don't listen to slinky please. O and once you can build up speed, try counting out loud when you play so you can really internalize the beat.
 
#12
thedbassist said:
I'm not trying to agree with slinky, but I don't practice parts slow-with a metronome- anymore. I just make sure I know where the pitches are(and the movement of the left hand) and if I know the fingering then it shouldn't take too long. What is the point of getting a metronome and then bumping a tempo up periodically if you already know the pitches placement on the fingerboard and the movement of your left hand?
Click to expand...

Cuz you don't really know the pitches and the movement of your left hand. When you practice it really slow it gets so inside your hands that when you crank the tempo everything falls into place really well.
 
#13
Quarter note = 40bpm - my mantra for the first hour of the day and for all new material. This has affected my playing tenfold for the better. I can play fast with ease, and much more accurate in pitch, rhythm, and bow control / tone. Try a walking line at 20 - it's painful, but at tempo the groove becomes very deep.

It's going to take me a while to get where I want, but I'll sound great getting there.:)
 
#14
I repeated this elsewhere, I think?

The brain controls your actions and doesn't neccessarily accept new patterns of use quickly. As a kid do you remember how hard it was to pat your head and rub your stomach in circles at the same time? Then rub your head and pat your stomach ,then swap hands, then change directions, etc etc.

If you practise a bowing, fingering or combination slowly and correctly until your brain says yes, I got it, then speed without mistakes and fumbling will follow easily.

Anyone who fumbles their way through passages at speed over and over again is just learning to play them badly. There is a three-times theory. If you learn a passage or movement badly you have to unlearn it before learning it again correctly.

Professorslinky must waste a lot of time!!

DP
 
#15
Yes, slowly, but have you looked at the original violin edition at all? That is what I used. I think Jeff took a few liberties if I recall and the original is perfectly playable (although still hard). If it is the section that I think it is...good luck. It is a tricky little devil.

What fingering works for Jeff may not work for you. In general, I hate edition fingerings. You know what feels good for you.
 

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