Dark Hands?

[hedgepig]

I've been a pro bassist, mostly playing jazz, for 40 years, but I have a 'problem' which someone might be able to help me with.

I've got decent gear; I'm using a TC Electronic RH 750 with 1/2/4x12" cabs depending on the gig (which I love - except all the knobs fell off in a few weeks); I have a Wal Mach II custom 5 string bass which you would have to prise out of my dead hands (!), an Aria Pro II 5 strng fretless, G&L 5 string, and a Fender Jazz Bass. Also several cheap knockoffs for teaching.

The problem is that whatever bass I play, it sounds too dark. For instance, I had a student come in with a Schecter bass which sounded great when she played it, but it sounded completely different when I tried it...

I'm trying to get a modern 'bright' sound and it's not happening, even with new strings.

Any suggestions? I know about right hand placement, but something isn't quite right - or have I just got to accept it?

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Lobster11]

Could it be as simple as where the cabinet is relative to your ears? If the cab is on the floor and you're standing in front of it with the speaker(s) pointed at the backs of your legs, you'll hear the (omnidirectional) lows but not the mids or highs. When you're listening to someone else play, you're probably farther from the cab and hearing the full range. (That's one reason I like a pair of vertically stacked 2x10s, which gets a couple of speakers up closer to my ears without needing an amp stand or other way of angling the cab up toward my ears.)

 

[Acoustic356]

Where is your plucking hand? Closer to the neck yields darker, while closer to the bridge will yield a brighter tone. I naturally rest towards the neck, somI consciously have to play more towards the bridge.

 

[hedgepig]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

Acoustic 356: I generally play between the pickups, fairly standard position, I would say. If I play near the neck I can get a pretty good double bass sound; I go nearer to the bridge for fast passages, because of the increased string tension.

Lobster11: I think you may be on to something there. I am going to be far too close to the cab to hear the real sound they are putting out. I can stack the four twelves vertically, so I'll try that too, next time I'm doing a loud gig.

That said, basses definitely sound different when I play them - I'm convinced it's something to do with the physiology of my hands.

Anyway, you've given me something to think about, thanks again.

 

[Watchootognbout]

What knd of strings are you using?
Flats?
Rounds?

 

[hedgepig]

gebass6: stainless steel roundwounds, always.

Edit: I use a hybrid set, 40 60 80 100 125.

 

[Jrussblues]

I am working on the same problem from the opposite side, I play all hifi but don't do a great job with mellow.
I can tell you for sure my technique goes back to underpowered amps, a lack of formal electric bass training and having to listen a lot.
I trained myself to find the fretting space between Jameson's smooth and jaco's bite and ended up basically right over the bridge pickup.
I pluck as hard as I can without going into fret buzz. I learned a while back that there is a sweet spot for each string that can produce a ton of volume and punch with a hard pluck and still have little or no fret buzz even with light strings and slammed action. I play fivers and that spot always seems to fall closer to the bridge on the g string and it moves slightly toward the neck as you make your way to the b string. I also remember that I paid a lot of attention to my plucking direction. It would slightly change from sting to string back in the day. Now I probably do it without thinking about it. More than likely it follows the fretboard radius.
The only other note I have on string vibration is to plug into the amp to see if you are hearing the frets rattle or not. Sometimes I can feel them rattle a little but it doesn't make it to the cabs. Also, this may sound dumb but I'm gonna say it anyway, the strings will fret out differently depending on how you hold the bass. If it's cocked back at an angle then it'll tend to fret out worse than If it is straight up and down (perpendicular to the ground).
All of my basses are two pickup basses and they tend to stay close to a 50/50 mix between the bridge and neck pickups. I will slightly pan one way or the other depending on what I need from the tone.
Here's how it all comes together, you pluck hard enough to produce the most possible volume from the string, along the spot of the string that will let you do that with minimal or no fret buzz. The result is the big beautiful sound that is the most punchy and the most round at the same time. The sacrifice is that if you are plucking that hard and don't have crazy callouses then you'll make it about 1/2 way through a 4 hour gig before the pain in your fingers MAKES you grab a pick.
Where I'm struggling now is to lighten my touch, move my plucking up toward the neck to add volume and sustain and increase my speed...in particular I am trying to increase my speed working my way up the fretboard through diatonic scales. These are first world problems.
good luck and I hope this helps.

 

[hedgepig]

Jrussblues: Yes! This is what I'm looking for! I'm going to take a while to assimilate what you're saying here, but I'll be coming back to your post.

Thank you.

 

[Lobster11]

Lobster11: I think you may be on to something there. I am going to be far too close to the cab to hear the real sound they are putting out. I can stack the four twelves vertically, so I'll try that too, next time I'm doing a loud gig.

Along the same lines: For gigs where you only need two 12s, stack three of them and use the top two -- i.e., use one as a stand to get the ones you're using up closer to your ears.

 

[hedgepig]

Lobster11: That is so obvious - why didn't I think of that?

Jrussblues: We really are coming at it from opposite ends, but I never had an EBass lesson either. I did have some double bass training, but I was actually a trombonist. At 16 I started playing bass, got loads of work very quickly, and gave up the trombone altogether at 21 when I left uni.

Anyway, I play very lightly with my right hand - people have commented on it. I guess it is because all my life in big bands and pit orchestras I've been told I'm too loud - on one big band gig I got so fed up with it I switched the amp off and just mimed... It was actually the pianist's left hand that was too loud, not me. Also, speed is important for me, so a lighter touch and loose hands are important to acheive some of what I get asked to play.

I've read through what you said a couple of times, and it all makes sense to me.

So I'm going to back the amp off, put the bass on 10 and try to dig in more, and see how it goes on the next gig.

I've always biased the pickups to the bridge, about 40/60, and I've never had a problem with fret buzz, but now I'm going to try and make it rattle! I don't use a pick, so I'm buying a bottle of surgical spirit Fortunately the gigs I do these days are usually 2x45m or 2x60m, so hopefully I should make it to the end without too much blood loss!

Great reply, thanks again, I really appreciate it. If you're getting into scales (highly recommended, by the way) have a look at this if you haven't already come across it:

All the best!

 

[Ole Brockmann]

Hello Hedegpig

I can heartily recommend dunlop Strings, I am using Marcus Miller super bright and they just do it for me
They even keep the crispyness ( is that even a word ?!?) for a long time

Best regards, Brock

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I've been a pro bassist, mostly playing jazz, for 40 years, but I have a 'problem' which someone might be able to help me with.

I've got decent gear; I'm using a TC Electronic RH 750 with 1/2/4x12" cabs depending on the gig (which I love - except all the knobs fell off in a few weeks); I have a Wal Mach II custom 5 string bass which you would have to prise out of my dead hands (!), an Aria Pro II 5 strng fretless, G&L 5 string, and a Fender Jazz Bass. Also several cheap knockoffs for teaching.

The problem is that whatever bass I play, it sounds too dark. For instance, I had a student come in with a Schecter bass which sounded great when she played it, but it sounded completely different when I tried it...

I'm trying to get a modern 'bright' sound and it's not happening, even with new strings.

Any suggestions? I know about right hand placement, but something isn't quite right - or have I just got to accept it?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Hahahaha...dark hands.

You using flats? Try elixir nickelrounds. Play harder.

 

[Wasnex]

I had a similar problem. I originally played with anchored thumb and straight fingers. This is a technique I brought over from my upright bass training. I also play with a relatively light touch, so I didn't hit the strings hard enough to slap the finger board. The sound this produced was very smooth and lacked punch. I noticed other players could pick up my bass and get a punchier sound with ease. When I was younger I assumed this was because they had hard calluses, which I have never really developed.

Near the end of my playing career, our organization hired an incredible bass player and I got to observe and work with him quite a bit. I noticed he had great tone and could also pull a wide range of tones out of the bass. A major difference in technique is he used floating thumb and arched plucking fingers. This changes the angle of attack between the finger and string and allows the angle to be varied.

I had seen other players use this technique before, but I had resisted it as I felt is required more energy because it cause my hand to tire quickly when I tried it. But I made a dedicated effort to use it and build up the necessary hand strenght, and now enjoy a punchier tone and the more ability to shape the way notes develop.

As far as how I use my speakers. I typically stack my speaker vertically and like at least one cab elevated to about waist level and tilted back to aim at my ears. I also tend to use a bright sound with lots of mids. Even with the speaker aimed right at my head and the bright tone, I don't get a lot of clank or fret rattle unless I want to, because I have always worked to have very clean and controlled technique. If you want to produce a bit of plank, pluck with more force and use a plucking angle that produces the desired results.

I toured professionally for several years primarily with an Eden D210XLT placed vertically on top of my rolling rack and tilted back to aim at my head. My amp pushed about 250W into 8 ohms. This setup was intended to let me hear as well as possible, so I could to turn down and let the PA carry the room without fighting with my stage sound. A different approach is appropriate if your amp needs to carry the room.