Darkglass Microtubes 900 vs Mesa Subway D800

[dgrizzly]

Recently got a Barefaced cab. It's loud, light and clear. It's pretty awesome for me to be able to take a taxi sedan to gigs and still be able to fit 2 additional passengers.

I currently use a GK MB800 and although I've enjoyed my tone in the past and speak very highly of this head, I'm not really getting what I'm looking for tone-wise when paired with the Barefaced cab.

Two main things:
- I prefer a low-mid bump as opposed to the GK scoop
- I prefer a "warmer" tone when getting into overdrive territory as opposed to the GK "grind"

So, I've been checking out both the Darkglass and Mesa class D offerings. Has anyone had a chance to do a shootout between the two yet? Can anyone give me some sort of feedback on which of the two they think would fit my needs best?

---

I play funk. Lakland Skyline 5502 with rounds. Barefaced Big Baby 2. I like my tone clean, but to get stage volume with an 8 ohm cab I sometimes have to get into slight overdrive territory on the head.

 

[monkeyfinger]

I may be able to help you some with this as I have been running a D800 as my main amp for about 6 months before changing to the DG 900. I used both with an Fearless F212, a cab that is similar to your Bearface. First, they are both excellent amps. The Mesa is very dark compared to the DG. I didn't really understand how dark the Mesa is until I compared it side by side with the DG. I don't mean to say that the Mesa lacks articulation. For a dark sounding amp, it is amazingly clear. Its heart and soul is in the low mids. I found the bass control mostly useless as there was already too much bass in the tone. In a live mix, the amp held up well, but I found the overall tone too dark. If you want a vintage sound with modern dynamics and articulation, the MB would be my choice. The DG, on the other hand has a very smooth, clear sound throughout the audio spectrum. In fact I hear a slight bump in the upper mids and highs that add a slightly forward tone in this range. The boost is fairly broad and smooth, so it is not harsh. In fact the highs are very smooth and clear. The tone is never harsh, nor sterile. For what I would consider fairly hi-fi overall, I find it pleasantly warm and organic. IMO, that's a hard combination to get and the DG nails it. The EQ on the DG is excellent. Rich enough in features to get the tone you are looking for, but simple enough to get where you need quickly. (More important in a live context of course.) With the DG eq, I think you can get into the MB sonic space, but it would be hard to duplicate exactly. If you like the MB tonal range, that amp will get you there very easily. But the DG is much more versatile, but requires a bit more eq work to get where you want to go. The MB has a natural girth in the low mids that you can get out of the DG with some work. Of the two amps, I prefer the DG.

 

[monkeyfinger]

BTW, you should also look at the new MB D800+. This is the new Subway version with more eq controls. I would love to compare this amp to the DG. I think these amps have more in common than the DG has with the older Subway. I have not heard the D800+ yet, so if others have something to share, I am all ears, (and eyes).

 

[dgrizzly]

Extremely helpful! Thank you @BFunk. From your comments, it sounds like the Mesa would be a better fit for me with it's natural low-mid bump. I saw the "+" version, but prefer the smaller size of the standard. I'm going to try to see if I can find a D800 to test out in person, but I don't think I'll have luck finding the Darkglass so your feedback is much appreciated! Not sure if "dark" is my thing, but I know that "bright" certainly is not, so that helps me as well.

Has anyone else had experience with these amps? Any feedback on either to counter or support what BFunk said (we all have different ears)?

 

[Djadja]

just to muddy the waters further, you might want to add the Quilter, DNA, and the Genzler to your look at list...

there are a bunch of cool possibilities out there now.

 

[monkeyfinger]

Extremely helpful! Thank you @BFunk. From your comments, it sounds like the Mesa would be a better fit for me with it's natural low-mid bump. I saw the "+" version, but prefer the smaller size of the standard. I'm going to try to see if I can find a D800 to test out in person, but I don't think I'll have luck finding the Darkglass so your feedback is much appreciated! Not sure if "dark" is my thing, but I know that "bright" certainly is not, so that helps me as well.

Has anyone else had experience with these amps? Any feedback on either to counter or support what BFunk said (we all have different ears)?

As I said before, I thought of the Mesa being a little dark until I compared it head-to-head with the DG. So, I don't want you to think that it is super dark. It's just much darker than the DG.

 

[dgrizzly]

just to muddy the waters further, you might want to add the Quilter, DNA, and the Genzler to your look at list...

there are a bunch of cool possibilities out there now.

Thanks for the suggestions! I'm not sure I'd be able to get along with the Quilter EQ. The DNA looks like it could be a contender... But both of those are kinda bulky. The Genzler Magellan 800 on the other hand - that will indeed be added to my list of considerations! Thanks again!

Edit: Take that back on the Quilter size... Did not realize how small it is! The shape made me think it was bigger.

 

[Djadja]

Thanks for the suggestions! I'm not sure I'd be able to get along with the Quilter EQ. The DNA looks like it could be a contender... But both of those are kinda bulky. The Genzler Magellan 800 on the other hand - that will indeed be added to my list of considerations! Thanks again!

Edit: Take that back on the Quilter size... Did not realize how small it is! The shape made me think it was bigger.

As per my sig, I play a Genz Benz 9.0 and see no reason to replace it right now, but if I did, I'd be looking at pretty much this list of heads. I'm glad I'm not looking because it would be a difficult choice. They each have their strengths and weaknesses and list of features. How to weigh those would be the issue.

 

[dgrizzly]

As per my sig, I play a Genz Benz 9.0 and see no reason to replace it right now, but if I did, I'd be looking at pretty much this list of heads. I'm glad I'm not looking because it would be a difficult choice. They each have their strengths and weaknesses and list of features. How to weigh those would be the issue.

How would you describe the Genz Benz EQ and do you know if it is the same / similar to the new Genzler Magellan head? Just curious if there is any baked-in scoop or bump that you've noticed or that you know about.

 

[Djadja]

How would you describe the Genz Benz EQ and do you know if it is the same / similar to the new Genzler Magellan head? Just curious if there is any baked-in scoop or bump that you've noticed or that you know about.

I haven't played the new Genzler so any observations there are third hand. The word is that it sits somewhere halfway between the old Shuttle and Streamliner series in voice. The word is also that it has less of a baked in tone than the Mesa.

I'm really happy with the shuttle. It strikes me as being pretty much transparent. When the tone controls are set flat, it is flat and that is how I use it about 90% of the time. Sometimes I add a tiny bit of low mid push, a tiny bit more low, or a tiny bit more treble, but never all at once. I feel like the shuttle with my bass array translates the sound I'm getting from my bass and hands extremely well.

Sorry I can't be more help.

 

[tombowlus]

I may be able to help you some with this as I have been running a D800 as my main amp for about 6 months before changing to the DG 900. I used both with an Fearless F212, a cab that is similar to your Bearface. First, they are both excellent amps. The Mesa is very dark compared to the DG. I didn't really understand how dark the Mesa is until I compared it side by side with the DG. I don't mean to say that the Mesa lacks articulation. For a dark sounding amp, it is amazingly clear. Its heart and soul is in the low mids. I found the bass control mostly useless as there was already too much bass in the tone. In a live mix, the amp held up well, but I found the overall tone too dark. If you want a vintage sound with modern dynamics and articulation, the MB would be my choice. The DG, on the other hand has a very smooth, clear sound throughout the audio spectrum. In fact I hear a slight bump in the upper mids and highs that add a slightly forward tone in this range. The boost is fairly broad and smooth, so it is not harsh. In fact the highs are very smooth and clear. The tone is never harsh, nor sterile. For what I would consider fairly hi-fi overall, I find it pleasantly warm and organic. IMO, that's a hard combination to get and the DG nails it. The EQ on the DG is excellent. Rich enough in features to get the tone you are looking for, but simple enough to get where you need quickly. (More important in a live context of course.) With the DG eq, I think you can get into the MB sonic space, but it would be hard to duplicate exactly. If you like the MB tonal range, that amp will get you there very easily. But the DG is much more versatile, but requires a bit more eq work to get where you want to go. The MB has a natural girth in the low mids that you can get out of the DG with some work. Of the two amps, I prefer the DG.

+1 Well said! I agree, pretty much across the board.

 

[aerobass13]

I recently did a shootout between the Mesa D-800+ and the Darkglass M900 at home and kept the Mesa. As a point of reference, I'm coming from a GK Fusion 550 into a GK Neo 212 with new DR LoRiders on all basses (Warwick Streamer, Spector Euro, MM Sterling HH, and Dingwall NG2). Both amps were tested with the Neo 212, so bear in mind I'm using a slightly bright and mid-forward cab with bright strings and inherently aggressive basses.

As BFunk mentioned, the flat tone of the Mesa is a little rounder and thicker in the low-mids compared to the DG, making it seem darker, but the added flexibility of the semi-parametric mids makes a world of difference. I could get both amps into the same tonal range when trying to get different sounds (big and thick vs quick and bright), although they always retained a little of their own character, the Mesa being rounder and little grittier with the DG being smoother and a touch brighter. I found myself boosting the Mesa in the 1.5-2kHz range to get the additional brightness that the DG had flat, but preferred the sweepable mid to really find where i could get the grind with different basses. The low mid sweep also helped some with cutting or boosting depending on the bass; slightly cutting around ~300Hz also got closer to the DG flat. With that said, the DG has very usable mid frequency points that work well in all settings.

Honestly when doing the shootout, I preferred different amps with different basses. The Mesa sounded better with my Warwick and Dingwall, while I thought the DG sounded better with my MM and Spector. In the end, I thought I had a more flexible pairing with the Mesa into the GK Neo 212 and both the B3K and VMT on my board (sometimes I like to stack the two). The real edge for me was the overlapping sweepable mid bands on top of the Mesa voicing knob; this gives pretty much unlimited shaping in the mids. The addition of the HPF and bright switch also paired really well when trimming out some of the Mesa girth and adding string clank. I also liked getting a touch of grit from the Mesa preamp, compared to the somewhat always smooth and clear gain range of the DG.

If I bought either blind, I would be incredibly happy with both. I could see the DG pairing well with a darker cab or having the edge if I didn't already have Darkglass pedals on my board. Both are incredible amps with a lot of flexibility. I will echo that I think the D-800+ is a much better comparison to the M900 in terms of features and tone range than the original D-800. Would highly recommend trying both if you have the opportunity.

 

[nostatic]

I will echo that I think the D-800+ is a much better comparison to the M900 in terms of features and tone range than the original D-800. Would highly recommend trying both if you have the opportunity.

^^^ this

I have both the D800 and D800+. While they are voiced similarly, the dual parametrics on the D800+ allow a lot more tone shaping. As said above, one great feature is being able to sweep to exactly the point of either a desired change - be it cutting some low mids in a boomy room or adding a bit of grind in the upper mids. The 3-position on the DG certainly helps, and is a big differentiation between the D800, but you'd expect that with a $300 price difference.

I haven't played through the DG but I think it comes down to whether or not you dig their pedals. If you do then the amp is certainly compelling. If not, then it still is a great amp, but then the D800+ becomes pretty attractive, especially at $200 less.

Lots of great choices out there - just depends on what floats your boat.

 

[nostatic]

BTW, you should also look at the new MB D800+. This is the new Subway version with more eq controls. I would love to compare this amp to the DG. I think these amps have more in common than the DG has with the older Subway. I have not heard the D800+ yet, so if others have something to share, I am all ears, (and eyes).

 

[tombowlus]

As said above, one great feature is being able to sweep to exactly the point of either a desired change - be it cutting some low mids in a boomy room or adding a bit of grind in the upper mids.

+1 Totally agree.

 

[bjelkeman]

I recently did a shootout between the Mesa D-800+ and the Darkglass M900 at home and kept the Mesa.

I did the same (well a D-800, not a plus), but I kept the Darkglass. I think I would be very happy with either. It depends on what character you are looking for in an amp.

Previously I play with a Mesa Carbine M9 with a Darkglass B7K in front. (Still keeping the M9, for now.) Two TKS 2126 (2x12 1x6) cabs. Mostly Ibanez basses from the early eighties and a Warwick Corvette Standard. Earnie Ball Cobalt strings. I play hard rock/metal.

I played a GK MB500 Fusion for a few months when my M9 was getting serviced. I sold the GK as soon as I got the Darkglass amp. The GK was ok, but felt lacklustre in comparison.

 

[Munjibunga]

Excellent review - thanks.

 

[mikeluch]

In the pursuit of my perceived perfect tone, I have a DG on order, and after reading some of the reviews, am wondering if I will be happy with it.
I presently have a Streamliner 900, Genzler Magellan and a Subway 800. I am using a Barefaced BB2 and a Super Midget stack or a Berg CN212. I play mostly fingerstyle classic rock and blues, using a Lakland 4-94, 55-02, Fender or Lull P, or Sadowsky P/J along with others.
I typically pull the horn down on the Barefaced and Berg. I have also paired the cabs with the Subway, STL and Magellan.
The Streamliner is a little more cloudy sounding than the rest, but with some EQ, has a nice pillowy sound. The Magellan, even with the contours, I just cannot seem to dial in my tone, which is definitely not hi-fi and with more bottom and rounded sound. I really want to like the Magellan, but I keep going back to the "vintage" tone of the MESA.
So since I find myself using the Mesa more and more and I am now thinking maybe any amp change should be to the Mesa Subway plus? Will the Mesa plus EQ add much??? Is the Darkglass just going to be too sterile? I also do not use OD or distortion pedals, typically just try to slightly drive the amp if that is what I trying to achieve.
It is great to have options, maybe there are too many!

 

[husky123]

Sterile is not a word I would use to describe the Darkglass. It will color the tone a tad but I hope you like the sound of your bass because you will get that with massive and endless amounts of headroom. Even though you don't use OD, if you want a light drive tone, do yourself a favor and engage the microtubes engine, blend and gain it down. You'll be rewarded with an amazing drive tone with no loss of fundamental or punch. It's an insanely great amp.

 

[Lowendtech]

ill the Mesa plus EQ add much???

Yes. I have had a D800 (non plus) for almost a year. I just picked up the D800+ last week and so far I am really digging the added tone shaping ability of it. Haven't gigged it yet but I think it's a winner. Been running it into 2 Baer ML112's. Using some P basses, active J, and a DW Super JP4.