Darkglass Microtubes 900 vs Mesa Subway D800

[bucephylus]

One thing about the different preamp sections that is useful to understand is that, if using an active bass, we are actually stacking preamps; one in the bass and one in the amp. The folks making the amps do their best to try to deliver a usefully voiced tone stack; but they have to base those decisions on a somewhat wide array of instrument voicings or try to make market based decisions.

For example, that "dark" MB voicing just happens to be exactly the sauce for a passive Jazz Bass, reinforcing where the J is a bit shy. That same circuit works pretty well as well for the 2 band active J circuits, with the input attenuation. But, I find myself cutting a lot of the voicing back to accommodate some of the 3 band active basses, which tend to have more low end support in their output.

The more evenly voiced amps require some rigorous EQ adjustment to get the passive Fender J; but, they also yin yang a lot better with some of the more modern onboard preamps. Including the 2 band active J circuits.

At least, that's my perception. I haven't found a one size fits all. It's a matter of understanding which tone stacks pair well with which instruments, and which aren't quite as well matched. I'm not sure there is so much of a pairing issue with the various cabs, other than whatever voice the player is going for; since a lot of these amps are using similar power modules.

The wonky part of this is that we have somehow gotten to where we have preamps in the instruments and in the amps; and the variations of those two stages makes things confusing. The instrument is still evolving.

FWIW, IMO, YMMV

 

[mikeluch]

Thanks Bruce, that was great feedback that really started me thinking in how I approach my amp settings.
Seems to me that I might be more the issue in looking for the ultimate tone, than the amps themselves!

 

[Lowendtech]

One thing about the different preamp sections that is useful to understand is that, if using an active bass, we are actually stacking preamps; one in the bass and one in the amp. The folks making the amps do their best to try to deliver a usefully voiced tone stack; but they have to base those decisions on a somewhat wide array of instrument voicings or try to make market based decisions.

For example, that "dark" MB voicing just happens to be exactly the sauce for a passive Jazz Bass, reinforcing where the J is a bit shy. That same circuit works pretty well as well for the 2 band active J circuits, with the input attenuation. But, I find myself cutting a lot of the voicing back to accommodate some of the 3 band active basses, which tend to have more low end support in their output.

The more evenly voiced amps require some rigorous EQ adjustment to get the passive Fender J; but, they also yin yang a lot better with some of the more modern onboard preamps. Including the 2 band active J circuits.

At least, that's my perception. I haven't found a one size fits all. It's a matter of understanding which tone stacks pair well with which instruments, and which aren't quite as well matched. I'm not sure there is so much of a pairing issue with the various cabs, other than whatever voice the player is going for; since a lot of these amps are using similar power modules.

The wonky part of this is that we have somehow gotten to where we have preamps in the instruments and in the amps; and the variations of those two stages makes things confusing. The instrument is still evolving.

FWIW, IMO, YMMV

Plus preamps on pedal boards.
'Scuse me while I go stir the preamp gumbo.

 

[mikeluch]

Well, that doesn't come into play too much for me, all I run is a Keeley bassist
That would just mess with my head more than it is!

 

[Snaxster]

I don't mean to say that the Mesa [D-800+] lacks articulation. For a dark sounding amp, it is amazingly clear. Its heart and soul is in the low mids.

The [D-800+] low mid sweep also helped some with cutting or boosting depending on the bass; slightly cutting around ~300Hz also got closer to the DG flat.

Hello, and my thanks to both of you for these comments. Though I don't own an M900, I do own a Blue Rock, whose flat, clean sound probably differs from the D-800+ similarly.

During a research cycle in the past weeks, I remembered your posts as I considered many factors. In the end choosing the D-800+ (as an alternative to my Blue Rock, not as a replacement), today I received it. Playing and switching between the two amps today, I recalled your comments again and found you to be spot on.

There is more to the D-800 family sound than spectral response, I believe (nicely subtle, dynamic compression comes to mind), but I find that much to be true so far.

At first blush, I find no surprises and I like both flavors very much. I would venture to say that there is a characteristic sound in the current crop of pan-northern European integrated bass amps; and that if there is an equivalent characteristic American sound, that Mesa Boogie is it right now.

Thanks again.

 

[bjelkeman]

After having read this thread again I just wanted to say this is the best discussion I have read anywhere comparing and contrasting my two favourite lightweight tops: Mesa Subway D-800 and Darkglass Microtubes M900.

Awesome work by Doug and agedhorse.

 

[aerobass13]

After having read this thread again I just wanted to say this is the best discussion I have read anywhere comparing and contrasting my two favourite lightweight tops: Mesa Subway D-800 and Darkglass Microtubes M900.

Awesome work by Doug and agedhorse.

Absolutely agreed. When ordering these amps to compare, I expected some nice sounds, but both blew me away in quality and tone. And additional props to everyone having this discussion; I'm typically just a talkbass lurker, but greatly appreciate all of the hands-on experience and input the people here share.

 

[Murph_Orpheus]

I've been pondering whether to get a Darkglass M900 for while now even though I have the Mesa D800 and a Mesa Big Block which I don't see myself getting rid of. I feel like if I buy the M900 then the Mesa amps might be left lying around for a while! Owning 3 amps isn't too crazy right!?

 

[Lowendtech]

I've been pondering whether to get a Darkglass M900 for while now even though I have the Mesa D800 and a Mesa Big Block which I don't see myself getting rid of. I feel like if I buy the M900 then the Mesa amps might be left lying around for a while! Owning 3 amps isn't too crazy right!?

3 is the bare minimum allowable according to TB rules isn't it?. I have 5 and I still feel like I'm missing at least a couple more.

 

[saltydude]

3 is the bare minimum allowable according to TB rules isn't it?. I have 5 and I still feel like I'm missing at least a couple more.

I just started using my 800+. Now you're telling me I need more heads?

Ok.

I too went back and forth between the two for months. Settled on the Mesa.
Primarily because I had a B7KU so...
No regrets but now I want tubes. Dam GAS!!

 

[Lowendtech]

I just started using my 800+. Now you're telling me I need more heads?

Ok.

I too went back and forth between the two for months. Settled on the Mesa.
Primarily because I had a B7KU so...
No regrets but now I want tubes. Dam GAS!!

Love tubes. Catching fireflies in bottles is great. The Subways are a very good at making me not miss the extra 600x, or so, the weight of a tube amp. But I have to have both plus a 2 channel SS amp around at all times. It's a sickness.

 

[Murph_Orpheus]

I use a few Darkglass pedals with my Mesa amps and I love that tone combination. I think I might miss the Mesa tone in that mix if I was to go all Darkglass, even though I have no doubt that would sound amazing as well. First world problems eh?

 

[Kirk Bryant]

I thought that the guys with the DG pedals would have sold them when they bought the amp but I'm reading that a lot of folks are keeping the pedals onboard. Seems redundant to me. But then I have 4 D class, 2 SS and a few tube amps so what do I know. I really want to try one of these two. I have played the MB non plus and I was non plussed.

 

[JonW]

Yes, this discussion is excellent. Thanks, guys.

Can anyone speak to fan noise of one amp versus the other? For playing at home. Does either get into audible territory? The Gentler Magellan 800 is also on the contender list, with the Darkglass and D800+. Thanks.

 

[monkeyfinger]

Darkglass fan noise has never been a problem with me even at moderate volumes. Can I hear it when I stop? Sure, if I am listening for it.

 

[joel406]

I haven't read all the post here(but I will). So just going by the treads title I'm going to make an opinion post. I've been a life long Gallien Kruger user. Up until last Wednesday my current rig was a GK MB800 through 410's. last Wednesday I received a Subway D-800+. New from Sweetwater. I got a firsthand look at the Darkglass last week at Sam Ash. The videos I have seen of the DG sounded great. But upon inspection I found only a "single" speaker connection on this thing. I know, daisy chain my cabs. Well both my cabs have one speakon each. So I would have to add one to one cab. PITA. For me anyway. Played my subway at 1 rehearsal so far and I'm more than happy. But I'm also happy to still have my GK. Both sound different and I find I love both. Variety is such a tasty spice.

 

[bjelkeman]

I haven't read all the post here(but I will). So just going by the treads title I'm going to make an opinion post. I've been a life long Gallien Kruger user. Up until last Wednesday my current rig was a GK MB800 through 410's. last Wednesday I received a Subway D-800+. New from Sweetwater. I got a firsthand look at the Darkglass last week at Sam Ash. The videos I have seen of the DG sounded great. But upon inspection I found only a "single" speaker connection on this thing. I know, daisy chain my cabs. Well both my cabs have one speakon each. So I would have to add one to one cab. PITA. For me anyway. Played my subway at 1 rehearsal so far and I'm more than happy. But I'm also happy to still have my GK. Both sound different and I find I love both. Variety is such a tasty spice.

The Darkglass M900 is more like a GK MB Fusion than a Mesa D800, IMHO. (I haven't tried the GK MBs.) But the Darkglass is way more versatile, capable of a more aggressive sound, and more open in the sound I think. It replaced my GK MB Fusion, no regrets. But either complements a D800 well.

 

[bjelkeman]

Someone asked via PM about my M900 compared to to my Mesa M9. The answer turned out to be long, so I thought I would share it. Might be useful for someone.

-----
I play four string basses EADG tuned.

I started playing again four years ago, after a really long break. I replaced my HH 70 watt amp with an Ibanez microtop, 500 watt. I soon went to a bass meetup where they had "everything" and I fell in love with the M6/M9. I bought an M6 the same day. I should have kept it, the extra features of the M9 which I upgraded to I hardly use.

I really like the M6/M9 sound and power. I run it with a local boutique brand cabs, TKS, two cabs with 2x12 and an 8. Possibly similar to Fearfuls. If nothing else, they can be loud.

I started using the Darkglass B7K as a preamp to the Mesa, more mid and more drive than the Mesa could deliver alone. The M9 set flat. This is my sound now.

Then when the Darkglass M900 came out I just had to get that. Partially because I know Doug, who makes them, partially because I needed a backup. I had my M9 on service for a long time (awesome Mesa service, for free and I am the third owner of this head or more). And my backup head, a GK MB Fusion 500 just wasn't hacking it. It was ok, but no, nothing like the Mesa.

The Darkglass amp essentially can sound like my M9+Darkglass B7K. There is a difference of course. The M9 has a more organic feel, specially when the preamp tube is overdriven. But IMHO that isn't noticeable in a band setting. I play hard rock/metal. I A/B tested it with the band, just me playing. The guitarist could tell the difference, but not the vocalist or the drummer. They just said it sounded good.

The M9 like the M900 both have gobs of power. I can't use it all. I'd use either at any time. The M900 is much quieter than the M9+B7K, as I crank up the mids I nearly get guitar like overdrive / distortion hiss with them.

I think the M900 can be made to sound like the M9, or close, but that hasn't really been what I have tried. I was more after the M9+B7K sound and that works.

Love em both.

 

[Murph_Orpheus]

So I bought the M900 for €699 at 30% off in a sale in a local store today and it was the last one in stock. Giggity!! Pics to follow this evening

 

[caligula]

So I bought the M900 for €699 at 30% off in a sale in a local store today and it was the last one in stock. Giggity!! Pics to follow this evening

Fantastic price! OMG
The M900 is usually 999,- on the continent.
I'm in the market for a new amp, but the Darkglass went off my list when I heard that the DI-out level is controlled by the master volume (doesn't work for me).
For that price, however, it's a no brainer. Congrats.