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Darkglass Super Symmetry

#82
eloann said:
Compressors aren't demo friendly, you really have to play them in person
Click to expand...
So by that logic, nor are they album/live friendly? I mean, I get using compressors in the studio, but if it doesn't make a significant difference to the audience, then what is the point? I know how esoteric the world of (bass) sound is, and the uninitiated wouldn't know the difference between a phaser and a flanger or a distortion and an overdrive (and probably wouldn't realize if either were on), but if playing with a compressor is purely for the player's own sake, then why spend so much money on a barely audible effect?
 
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#84
Hypocrite said:
So by that logic, nor are they album/live friendly? I mean, I get using compressors in the studio, but if it doesn't make a significant difference to the audience, then what is the point? I know how esoteric the world of (bass) sound is, and the uninitiated wouldn't know the difference between a phaser and a flanger or a distortion and an overdrive (and probably wouldn't realize if either were on), but if playing with a compressor is purely for the player's own sake, then why spend so much money on a barely audible effect?
Click to expand...


Well, I use a $50 used compressor ;-) but allow me to answer - Compression is more of a "feel" thing. I use mine to even out my dynamics. The audience hears every note the same volume, more or less. Compression isn't supposed to be a "hey look at me" attention grabber (in most applications). Now, whether this is worth a lot of money depends on your point of view, your playing style, and how important compression is to you.
 
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#85
Hypocrite said:
So by that logic, nor are they album/live friendly? I mean, I get using compressors in the studio, but if it doesn't make a significant difference to the audience, then what is the point?
Click to expand...
It does make a difference to the audience - just not one they're normally aware of.

Hypocrite said:
If playing with a compressor is purely for the player's own sake, then why spend so much money on a barely audible effect?
Click to expand...
For extended sustain should one need/want it
To allows the player to shift his focus from "consistent plucking" to "rocking the stage"
To bring out tapping and harmonics so one can do the Billy Sheehan thing
To protect gear and ears from volume peaks
To use it as a boost in order to destroy gear and ears
Because we like buying stuff
Because some compressors have either audible or imaginary magic from either a secret transistor or fairy dust
 
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#86
eloann said:
It does make a difference to the audience - just not one they're normally aware of.


For extended sustain should one need/want it
To allows the player to shift his focus from "consistent plucking" to "rocking the stage"
To bring out tapping and harmonics so one can do the Billy Sheehan thing
To protect gear and ears from volume peaks
To use it as a boost in order to destroy gear and ears
Because we like buying stuff
Because some compressors have either audible or imaginary magic from either a secret transistor or fairy dust
Click to expand...

This... :-)
 
#88
Hypocrite said:
Just saw the "demo" video. Can anyone tell me what I'm supposed to pay attention to? I heard absolutely zero difference between on/off, except a little more bass in the first clip.
And before you ask, my headphones are just fine.
Click to expand...

In my headphones I hear a LOT more bass when the compressor is on (first clip), but the playing remains dynamic overall because the treble/attack of each note does not appear to be squished.

This is just one of the many uses of compression. Other uses were noted quite well above. In short, some players want fairly dramatic changes in tone and/or dynamics, but others want subtle, "transparent" compression. I think the only thing that everyone agrees on is that noise (hiss/hum) should not be introduced.
 
#89
eloann said:
It does make a difference to the audience - just not one they're normally aware of.


For extended sustain should one need/want it
To allows the player to shift his focus from "consistent plucking" to "rocking the stage"
To bring out tapping and harmonics so one can do the Billy Sheehan thing
To protect gear and ears from volume peaks
To use it as a boost in order to destroy gear and ears
Because we like buying stuff
Because some compressors have either audible or imaginary magic from either a secret transistor or fairy dust
Click to expand...

You know I never really understood the point of compression. I mean, I got the jist, but as far as I went as a player, I didnt think I ever needed it. I always say, "Im really not much of a comp guy". And Maybe Im not. But, I owe it to myself to get a decent one and see if it does anything for me. Who knows, maybe Ill get one and kick myself in the caboose because I havent played/tried one this whole time Ive been playing.

Anyway, I was reading one of those Billy Sheehan advanced bass lesson books last night. The way he explains compression in there, for him and his uses anyway, is really cool and it made me understand it a little bit better. Which is really cool. Because Ill be honest, Ive had an OK idea what compression does for a bass player, yet am still clueless about it if that makes sense. I was thinking of starting with the SD Studio Bass comp (I am getting the Symmetry eventually, hell maybe Ill just get it first and see!! hehe) and see what that did for me. I also have that Joyo DynaComp too but I cant tell what its doing. Maybe Ill try it again with a more careful ear. So my next effect Ill probably delve into is compression. Ive spent so much time and money on effects in general and Ive completely ignored compression this whole time for the most part. I think its time I see if its for me.
 
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#90
Well, that was awkward... I think we screwed with that one (the video).

The main goal for the Super Symmetry was transparency, which of course is hard to show on a sample, I should have anticipated that (hindshight 20/20) and done something better... I think the production in general on that one was very rushed and poor and that's 100% on us (me particularly for Okeying the uploading of it).

Lesson learned, we are working on a way better video, explaining a bit better the functionality of every knob, with better production value as well.

It should do a way better job at showing what the pedal is capable of on a mix context too.

Thanks for the feedback guys, even in cases like this when it's not very fun to read how I personally dropped the ball, it's always very enlightening and educational.

Regards, Doug.
 
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#91
gregmon79 said:
You know I never really understood the point of compression. I mean, I got the jist, but as far as I went as a player, I didnt think I ever needed it. I always say, "Im really not much of a comp guy". And Maybe Im not. But, I owe it to myself to get a decent one and see if it does anything for me. Who knows, maybe Ill get one and kick myself in the caboose because I havent played/tried one this whole time Ive been playing.

.... Ive spent so much time and money on effects in general and Ive completely ignored compression this whole time for the most part. I think its time I see if its for me.
Click to expand...

For some (like me) compression is nice-to-have, for others it's gotta-have, and of course some never use it. As usual, no right or wrong.

A couple of thoughts. First, overdrive/distortion by its nature compresses the signal: the greater the OD, the greater the compression. That said, the video below by Nolly of Periphery illustrates how he uses a compressor to accentuate the attack of each note, essentially adding some dynamics to an overdriven/compressed signal. Skip to 4:40 (if the link doesn't):


Apologies to Doug for showing a non-DG compressor, although the vid DOES show the B7K. :D
 
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#92
Fuzzbass said:
For some (like me) compression is nice-to-have, for others it's gotta-have, and of course some never use it. As usual, no right or wrong.

A couple of thoughts. First, overdrive/distortion by its nature compresses the signal: the greater the OD, the greater the compression. That said, the video below by Nolly of Periphery illustrates how he uses a compressor to accentuate the attack of each note, essentially adding some dynamics to an overdriven/compressed signal. Skip to 4:40 (if the link doesn't):


Apologies to Doug for showing a non-DG compressor, although the vid DOES show the B7K. :D
Click to expand...


Shoot, anything Nolly screams DG IMO haha ;)
 
#93
Darkglass said:
...The main goal for the Super Symmetry was transparency, which of course is hard to show on a sample, I should have anticipated that (hindshight 20/20) and done something better... I think the production in general on that one was very rushed and poor and that's 100% on us (me particularly for Okeying the uploading of it).

Lesson learned, we are working on a way better video, explaining a bit better the functionality of every knob, with better production value as well.
Click to expand...

The demo is only 2 minutes! Given that, I took it as preliminary, with a better/lengthier one on the way. I think the first mini-session effectively shows how the SuperSymmetry can be used to bring up bass frequencies in a transparent way: no apparent loss of dynamics or increase in noise. That said, it was tougher for me to hear the benefit in the next mini-sessions.
 
#94
gregmon79 said:
You know I never really understood the point of compression. I mean, I got the jist, but as far as I went as a player, I didnt think I ever needed it. I always say, "Im really not much of a comp guy". And Maybe Im not. But, I owe it to myself to get a decent one and see if it does anything for me. Who knows, maybe Ill get one and kick myself in the caboose because I havent played/tried one this whole time Ive been playing.
Click to expand...

You have probably been using compression without knowing. Sound guys can be sneaky about it (and rightly so - the non-technical player doesn't want to know he's being compressed 3.5:1 with a 120ms attack time)
On the last cover I did (Spock's Beard's Minion) I must have tried playing the fast licks in the verses about 100 times (that's after listening 100 more times to transcribe them) and just couldn't get them "in there". Plugged in my B3K (off for that section) and favorite compressor and I could play the offending part. I guess it allowed me to use a lighter touch without making it sound too flappy.

I do think a compressor with extensive metering such as the new Symmetry is a better choice for a first comp. It helps understand what it does and educate your ear.
 
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#95
eloann said:
Your have probably been using compression without knowing. Sound guys can be sneaky about it (and rightly so - the non-technical player doesn't want to know he's being compressed 3.5:1 with a 120ms attack time)
On the last cover I did (Spock's Beard's Minion) I must have tried playing the fast licks in the verses about 100 times (that's after listening 100 more times to transcribe them) and just couldn't get them "in there". Plugged in my B3K (off for that section) and favorite compressor and I could play the offending part. I guess it allowed me to use a lighter touch without making it sound too flappy.

I do think a compressor with extensive metering such as the new Symmetry is a better choice for a first comp. It helps understand what it does and educate your ear.
Click to expand...

That was my thought too, with the metering. I know that Ive been compressed before on recordings and live. I know that I compress my signal anyway a lot of the time because I play dirty 90% of the time from OD to fuzz. Its not quite the same as a comp but it is still compressing. But I do and have always planned on learning more about compression and want to get a good to great one first time out. Then from there try all the usual suspects if I can. Its gonna take a long time and some money, but Im game! ;)
 
#97
pa010 said:
@Darkglass are compression ratio, attack and release time top secret or can you tell us? :D
Please :)
Click to expand...

The ratio will vary according to the compression setting.
We're working on calculating all those values to put up on the website, as soon as that's done I'll let you guys know.
 
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