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DarkStar Pick Ups

#121
I just had an email conversation with Curtis Novak of Curtis Novak Classic Pickups (http://curtisnovak.com/). He is very close to having his version of the bisonic pickup ready for production and sale. He also makes an EB-Bisonic pickup that is very similar but fits in a Gibson EB pickup cover. Here are some excerpts from the conversation and some pics he sent me.

Curtis: "It (the Invalid Link Removed) is close it is made with the same coil size and pattern and the same proper sized bar magnets. The big difference is the Bisonic had 1/4 rods where screw pole pieces. It is designed to be an alternative pickup for the Mudbucker.

"I do have some good news for you however... I have been pestered for years to start making the Bisonic, well I finally agreed. I have finished the bobbin and am just waiting on the FAB shop to finish the metal parts. The cool thing since I am making my own bobbins I can do them in a variety of colors, and of course in traditional Black.

"To begin with I am doing vintage spec I can move into other string spacing over time, but keep in mind that a pole piece in not a sopt or laser focus but a flood field so it is not imperative to have it directly under the strings. In parallel with that I am also working up the 1962 Bass VI pickup. I have the pickup and the bobbin done, I am just waiting on the chrome ring and baseplate as well."

cncp-bs.jpg


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#123
i have found a way to get close to copying the darkstar tone on my p bass using eq. it's all about mids. on my walkabout i turn the 340hz knob all the way to the left and the knob above it all the way to the right. or with my trilogic preamp i boost the low mids to about 2:00, turn the gain up to 2:00 to get a little fur, and boost the output a little. i still miss my darkstar and it's definitely not the same but it's moving in that direction sonically.
 
#126
mgod said:
Its amazing to see all this activity. It took 30 years to find anyone willing to take this on (Fred) and now 9 years later, everyone's giving it a go.
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I don't think it took 30 years to find someone willing at all. I think most people had no interest in these pickups because until Fred started making them most people knew nothing about them.

There have been lots of great funky pickups made over the years. And then the industry got stuck on copying mostly Fender and Gibson designs to the point that you have Fenders guitars with humbuckers and Gibson basses with jazz pickups. It's all become very generic and uninteresting. It's the same tones regurgitated over and over.

The good part about the whole retro vintage craze is people discovering that there were other great sounding basses and pickups besides Fenders and Gibsons. :bassist:

Hagström made some cool instruments. I always wanted one of these:

Invalid Link Removed

And one of these too:

http://vintageinstrumentrental.com/bass_hagstrom8.htm
 
#127
Yes, Fred brought the updated Bisonic back to civilization, but it's important to know that a small group of Jack Casady influenced bass players were very vocal and supportive of Fred's early efforts (ie., there is a market out there). Lots of us have spent years trying to modify our instruments to get the tone that we heard while being in the front row and mesmerized by Jack Casady and Phil Lesh. You can see Berry Oakley was one of the crew (tractor Bass)

Sure, perhaps they are glorified P-90 single coils, but in my entire stable of basses (two Sadowsky's, Alembic Rogue, EMG loaded Godins and 69 Starfire II) the Dark Star's DS-3's that Fred gave me to try out early on have a distinctive tone the others don't. I waited years to have this pickup with the wider pole spacing so I could put it in a long scale bass and have a tighter E string

Still all in the hands, finger, and brain of course . . . . . but
 
#128
I somewhat agree that most people are focused on the main stream of pickups and instruments and not willing to venture out into the weeds. I think it is kind of a chicken/egg deal and I am not sure which came first. The player that wants a particular pickup to sound like X player, or the Mfg that mass produces only 3 options and works to convince you that not only do you want one of these 3 options, you have to HAVE it be successful.
I personally have NEVER been one to follow the herd nor color within the lines. I however do not agree that it is because of lazy or lack of interest for why there are not more pickup options out there. For good or bad I believe it is all based on one thing.... money.
I have wanted to reproduce this pickup for well over a decade, but what you may not understand is it will cost me many many thousands of dollars to have all these parts made, and I too have a family to feed, insure, clothe, get through college, and retirement.. Most small operations look at this and say why would I spend that much money to recreate something for a niche market when for pennys when I can just make Pbass pickups, and every one want Pbass. On the other side speaking of the large Mfg's why on earth would they invest many thousands on creating something for a niche market when they already invested some much and worked so hard to convince you that you NEED a Pbass pickup. Their business model is based on shear volume of sales, niche markets are a huge loss to them.
The reason I did not venture down this road on the Bisonic years ago was out of respect for Fred knowing he invested much time and money in to this and there were many other sand boxes I could play in. I waited a number of years and have had many people and Mfgs request and tell me Fred is no where to be found please help us out. I have repaired countless of these over the years and I agree they are great pickups, but keep in mind I do not believe there is such a thing as a bad sounding pickup, nor is there a holy grail pickup just depends on the artist, the instrument, and the application. This of course gets me in trouble from time to time and is not the textbook way to run a successful business, but being a free thinker I think it works for me....
curtis
 
#129
Well said, Curtis, and kudos to you for sticking your neck out there. I love the photos of your efforts that BuzzKing posted above, especially that wild psychedelic bobbin!

If there is any chance that you, or David, or anybody will make these in a five-string format, then I'll eat beans for a month so that I can buy one (or two, or six...)!
 
#130
Curtis Novak said:
I personally have NEVER been one to follow the herd nor color within the lines.
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+1

You make some cool pickups Curtis.

The reason I did not venture down this road on the Bisonic years ago was out of respect for Fred knowing he invested much time and money in to this and there were many other sand boxes I could play in.
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That's the honorable thing to do. I also stay out of other pickup makers' way for the most part. There's enough to go around for all of us, no point stepping on each other's toes.
 
#131
ctmullins said:
If there is any chance that you, or David, or anybody will make these in a five-string format, then I'll eat beans for a month so that I can buy one (or two, or six...)!
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I will be making them in 4, 5, and 6 string versions — keeping in mind that they wont be what Curtis is making — but will be in soapbar style cases.
 
#132
SGD Lutherie said:
I don't think it took 30 years to find someone willing at all. I think most people had no interest in these pickups because until Fred started making them most people knew nothing about them.
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I'm not sure how you would know, but what I meant was that it took ME 30 years to find someone. i just left myself out of the equation. I started writing to Guild about it in 73, the same year I started talking to RT about it.

I hope everyone who's now heading down the road that Fred proved was a viable one does as good a job. Fred had some of the know-how, RT had the rest, and Fred was willing to risk losing all the money it took to get them going.
 
#133
mgod said:
I'm not sure how you would know, but what I meant was that it took ME 30 years to find someone. i just left myself out of the equation. i started writing to Guild about it in 73, the same year I started talking to RT about it.

I hope everyone who's now heading down the road that Fred proved was a viable one does as good a job.
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Well older players like me (and I'm guessing you) knew what they are. But you can see by reading posts about them on TB that some people knew nothing about Bi-Sonics, only about DarkStars. And maybe I'm wrong lol Wouldn't be the first time. But I'm a gear head and follow all this stuff.

I actually liked the Guild bass humbuckers that replaced the Bi-Sonics, even though it was a totally different tone.

It's a shame that Hagström didn't seem to think it was worth recreating their old pickups for the reissues, and went with generic pickups.
 
#136
mgod said:
I'm not sure how you would know, but what I meant was that it took ME 30 years to find someone. i just left myself out of the equation. I started writing to Guild about it in 73, the same year I started talking to RT about it.

I hope everyone who's now heading down the road that Fred proved was a viable one does as good a job. Fred had some of the know-how, RT had the rest, and Fred was willing to risk losing all the money it took to get them going.
Click to expand...

I knew about these pickups for a long time, as well. I always loved the bass sound on Live/Dead and the album known as Skull****, which featured them on a Starfire and a Gibson EB respectively. I managed to get a couple of Starfires with Bisonics and wrote about them on The Bottom Line in the 90s with reference to the Casady connection. I then got an email from Fred wondering where he could get some. Later he told me that when I responded that they were way way way out of production, he got inspired to make them himself and he started serious conversations with Rick, Dan and others about getting it off the ground. I seem to recall emails with Rick, too, about experiments he did with the Bisonic form, including some Litz wire versions. There are tons of great posts from Rick on the TBL archives about all kinds of subjects. There was a golden age of The Bottom Line, when he, Sheldon Dingwall, Roger Sadowsky, Harry Fleischman and others were regular posters.
 
#138
mgod said:
Guess away. Very strange comment.
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Your comment is stranger. Most people don't know much about extinct instruments if they hadn't actually had any experience with them. I remember the Bi-Sonics when they were current pickups.

I meet many bass players, and 90% wouldn't know a Bi-Sonic if it bit them on the ass. Others might have heard of them but have no experience with them.

Regarding Casady and Lesh, they have been playing other basses and pickups longer than they played the Guilds with the Bi-Sonics.
 
#139
s_mcsleazy said:
i myself have a few questions about them.

1. roughly what is the output?
2. can you coil tap them?
3. are they hard to fit. they are a bit bigger which makes me think they would
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1. they are only wound to 6k, but have a good amount of output.

2. They are single coils.

3. Real Bi-Sonics or DarkStars require a fairly large rout. The actual sound producing part of the pickup itself is not all that large, as you can see in the photos of the Dagstars.

Most of the Bi-Sonic's size was due to the pole piece lifters.
 

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