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Dead area on 1st string

EricOnTheBass

EricOnTheBass

Dec 18, 2010
701
1,630
El Paso, TX
#1
I noticed today that in the first 4 or 5 frets my G-string seems dead. The fundamental note decays quickly, while harmonics continue to ring. The open string is OK, and it seems fine farther up the neck as well, which makes me think it's something to do with the setup or the neck. I don't really notice any problem with the other strings.

Does anyone know what might cause this and how to correct it?

FYI, I posted another thread related to the finish on the neck. Not sure if these problems are related, but the finish in the dead area seems OK.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=722334
 
#3
Isn't this a common problem on "some" Fender basses?
I think a good thing to try....
Using something like thin wood for pads, clamp a C-clamp on the headstock - you're just changing the mass a bit. Of course, do not over-tighten. Then give it a shot.
Does that make the problem go away? Or does the problem move to different frets?
 
#4
Thanks for the replies. I tried both suggestions.

Raising string height: no effect

Clamp on the headstock: interesting. The problem was worse before on the 1st string, 3rd fret. After putting a 6-inch C-clamp on the headstock, it got better. Not cured, but better. The 2nd fret was about the same as the 3rd. But then the 2nd (D) string 7th fret got bad.

So adding mass to the headstock moved the problem down half a step. This must mean that the neck doesn't want to resonate at this particular frequency, right? Is there a fix for this?
 
#5
Yeeahhhh...I think so. There are a couple devices to address this kind of problem. I forget what they're called though. But they're basically shiny chrome or gold devices that clamp to the headstock. Search in these forums for dead spot and you'll see a lot of suggestions. My laptop is going to die in about 1 minute; otherwise I'd be more helpful. Good luck.
 
#7
All wood guitars will have some sort of "dead" spot....some more pronounce than others. This has to do with the resonance properties of said wood. Rick Turner had a good article a few years back about the subject. He was able to move dead spots on a bass by vibrating the whole bass for...i think...a week straight or something like that....somehow it rearranged the wood molecules and shifted the dead spot..weird.
 
#10
It is a common problem on certain types basses and it is one of the first things I check before buying a bass.

I had it on a Classic 50s Fender Precision (MIM). It wasn't too bad on typical, medium gauge round wound strings but it was terrible when I tried heavy gauge flat wounds.

I just avoided those notes and went back to medium gauge, round wound strings. Eventually, I just sold the bass when I found a P-Bass that I like better.

Try different strings, perhaps lighter.
 
#11
smoov said:
All wood guitars will have some sort of "dead" spot....some more pronounce than others. This has to do with the resonance properties of said wood. Rick Turner had a good article a few years back about the subject. He was able to move dead spots on a bass by vibrating the whole bass for...i think...a week straight or something like that....somehow it rearranged the wood molecules and shifted the dead spot..weird.
Click to expand...

Here's the article:

Invalid Link Removed

The process apparently "shifts" the dead spot to an inconspicuous freq. Even Roger Sadowsky acknowledges the presence of G dead spots on his products. His recommendation: add a Fat Finger headstock clamp. Sidenote: I'm not sure if this is a discontinued product or not.

Aggressive EQing can also suck the life out of the D & G strings IME. A parametric EQ boost (narrow band) and sweep may help you regain the lost response.

Riis
 
#12
I own 5 basses of different brands and do not have a dead spot on any of them. None of them are Fender made or boutique basses, and all were less than a grand. Maybe cheaper = better or maybe I'm just lucky :D
There used to be a product called a Fathead, which was basically a brass plate that mounted to the backside of the headstock, to increase sustain and alleviate dead spots. I don't know if these are still in production or not.
 
#13
IME, EQ doesn't help with this type of dead spot. When the fundamental dies at a different rate than the harmonic, there is a very narrow, low-frequency resonant peak at work.

Part of the problem with dead spots is that there are almost as many different reasons for them, as there are basses with the problem. Quite often, what works on one bass, won't work on another.

A few other things to check:

- Are the first four or five frets properly set? Look for obvious lifting, or double-check by trying to slide the edge of a thin piece of paper under the fret edges. A tech can sometimes fix a dead spot by replacing or gluing a poorly-set fret.

- When you slacken the strings, are any of the tuners loose? I recently made a major improvment to an inexpensive bass, by re-tensioning the cheap elephant-ear tuners. They were all nice and tight against the peghead, but the worm gear shafts were very loose on some of them. Here's a thread on adjusting open-gear tuners:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=720367

- When you play the bass unplugged, is there any buzzing? A loose truss rod, bridge hardware, or even a pickguard, can cause unwanted resonant effects.

- Have you checked the neck mounting screws for tightness? On that note, there are a couple of threads on TB about installing threaded inserts to tighten up the neck joint. It didn't help my ATK, and it was a nightmare to do, but other people have reported good results.
 
#14
Okay, this thread sparked my curiosity so I did a little experimentation with the stuff I have on hand. I can neither confirm nor deny the efficacy / quality of outcome as none of my basses are problematic to start with.

I clamped a dollar's worth of stacked quarters with my set-up capo on the headstock. You do have a capo, correct? That's alright, any clamping system will suffice. I'll make the near-fatal assumption that if your dead spot can be minimized via the addition of headstock mass, any source should have some effect whether it may the combined mass of clamp & quarters or an umpteen dollar Fat Finger. Bottom line: it's certainly worth a try.

Riis
 
#15
smoov said:
All wood guitars will have some sort of "dead" spot....some more pronounce than others. This has to do with the resonance properties of said wood. Rick Turner had a good article a few years back about the subject. He was able to move dead spots on a bass by vibrating the whole bass for...i think...a week straight or something like that....somehow it rearranged the wood molecules and shifted the dead spot..weird.
Click to expand...

Rearranged wood molecules? :-) p-lease...
 
#16
mcnach said:
Rearranged wood molecules? :-) p-lease...
Click to expand...

I don't think thats what it actually does. The wood cells have crystalline dried fluid (sap) in them and the molecules of that can be "fluidized" by vibrations and re-align making the crystal structure more uniform. The hard cell envelope that is cellulose (wood) can be softened by vibrations and will become more flexible, Just as smacking it with a hammer will, but without actually damaging. So the story goes.

Similar Truths:,
-Markely Blue Steel strings are "cold activated" by freezing them and the crystalline structure of the steel changes. Similarly, snow builds up and with pressure of new snow above, the lower snow is rearranged into ice. Ice transmits sound better than snow. Vibration is a form of pressure.

- I saw a documentary about huge rock slides and how far huge boulders can travel: farther than conventional physics could explain The scientists conclusions were that the entire mass of thousands of pieces of rock moving in unison created vibrations so strong it "fluidized" the slide and "lubricated" it allowing it to flow like water for a time.

There is no reason why wood should be different than other materials. The properties of materials and compounds are astounding. Possibilities abound.

A mind is like a parachute, it doesn't work well if it's not open.:D
 

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