Is there a decent sounding small, cheap combo amp out there for home practice and rehearsals? Rumble 25 or 15? Peavy max?
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Double Bass Decent small, cheap combo for upright practice?
- Thread starter sidonbass
- Start date
Roland MICRO CUBE BASS RX Bass Amplifier
(NFI)
I use mine for practice, rehearsals and for gigs. Though battery operated (6 AA or included AC adapter), this little amp has good tone, full EQ and voicing options and it has excellent volume.
The trick with small amps for gigs is to raise them up to waist height or higher so they aren't shooting sound into peoples legs and feet; I bring a stool to use if necessary for this purpose. And, if necessary for more volume, mic the amp.
Also, my on-board signal chain includes a mono-splitter, so I can connect to my amp and to a FOH system at the same time.
Lastly, I've recently gone wireless from DB outbound to eliminate cable complications. Much happier with the freedom to move around.
(NFI)
I use mine for practice, rehearsals and for gigs. Though battery operated (6 AA or included AC adapter), this little amp has good tone, full EQ and voicing options and it has excellent volume.
The trick with small amps for gigs is to raise them up to waist height or higher so they aren't shooting sound into peoples legs and feet; I bring a stool to use if necessary for this purpose. And, if necessary for more volume, mic the amp.
Also, my on-board signal chain includes a mono-splitter, so I can connect to my amp and to a FOH system at the same time.
Lastly, I've recently gone wireless from DB outbound to eliminate cable complications. Much happier with the freedom to move around.
I've used the Peavey with a 15" at a guitar player's house that I play with occasionally and it's OK. I picked up an old Ampeg that I planned on using for practice, but realized why bother? I use my performance Genzler Magellan 350 combo. which is super portable and I don't have to suffer with inferior sound.
The Traynor SB 106 is by all accounts a great small practice amp.
I have a Line 6 Low Down 1x10 combo for a "grab and go" practice amp. I don't use it much though because it's not much smaller than my main rig, a Phil Jones C4 and head, which has far greater capability.
I have used the Fender rumble combos before (not sure which ones) in backlined shows and thought they seemed nice.
I have used the Fender rumble combos before (not sure which ones) in backlined shows and thought they seemed nice.
The wise people say you should not practice upright with an amplifier. Practice without, so amplification is used to lift your sound, not create it.
The other side of this is figuring out how an amplifier effects your playing and sound and practicing with it to learn so when you get on the bandstand you’re familiar with the ins and outs. Rufus Reid suggested that when I studied with him in the 70’s.
I fully agree with the spirit of this statement, especially because I personally much prefer to play acoustically, or if more volume is needed, I prefer to be mic'ed on stage...
However, often an amp is the only available solution on stage. If a person is going to use an amp, it's important to practice with it enough to know how to use it well on stage. Of particular interest are setting an amp's volume, voicing, EQ, gain, compression, pickup blending, and learning how to adjust for arco volume vs pizz volume. Knowing how to best use these amp settings for the double bass in use, before going on stage, is pretty important.
But, for general practice sessions, at least for me, an acoustic double bass provides the very best sound.
Another example above of two seemingly contradictory yet correct answers...
I was recently shopping for a small combo to use with an acoustic bass guitar. Similar issues in terms of wanting an accurate sound, decent headroom, good low end, and a compact footprint...
During my search, I went through every small, conventional bass amp known to man, and I will never go near one again. There are too many excellent small powered PA speakers out there now, and they are much better suited to acoustic instruments.
I ended up buying a Bose S1 Pro, which is a terrific little 15lb device that's not much bigger than a toaster and runs on AC or the built-in lithium battery. However, it's definitely not cheap.
If you don't need battery operation, there are a number of $200 options at Sweetwater that are entirely suitable for small gigs. They can also double as a mini-PA, making them a much better investment.
If you already have a small mixer or some other preamp for tone shaping, then the Headrush FRFR 108 has a warm sound that complements acoustic basses, and packs a surprising amount of punch- much more output than the $600 Bose. If you need some built-in EQ, the Behringer B208D is another decent option.
During my search, I went through every small, conventional bass amp known to man, and I will never go near one again. There are too many excellent small powered PA speakers out there now, and they are much better suited to acoustic instruments.
I ended up buying a Bose S1 Pro, which is a terrific little 15lb device that's not much bigger than a toaster and runs on AC or the built-in lithium battery. However, it's definitely not cheap.
If you don't need battery operation, there are a number of $200 options at Sweetwater that are entirely suitable for small gigs. They can also double as a mini-PA, making them a much better investment.
If you already have a small mixer or some other preamp for tone shaping, then the Headrush FRFR 108 has a warm sound that complements acoustic basses, and packs a surprising amount of punch- much more output than the $600 Bose. If you need some built-in EQ, the Behringer B208D is another decent option.
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... that little Bose looks amazing ... do you think it would work well with an electric bass?
- Dec 13, 1999
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I don't understand using an amp for practicing upright, it's an acoustic instrument that you can hear perfectly well for individual practice. And, while I too have heard down the years "if you're going to play amplified, practice amplified", my experience has been that I have yet to find a playing environment that replicates any living room, study, or bedroom that has been my practice space and that any of the decisions I made about amplifier settings made in living room/study/bedroom just didn't work when faced with playing a variety of venues with a variety of musicians.
At least for me, most of that poopie got worked out on the stand, under fire (if you will). When I started to get some experience with rooms of different sizes, different stage setups, different instrumental makeups of the ensemble, I had a much better handle on what I needed to do with an amp to get to a workable sound. And when I started playing as much as I could without an amp, that REALLY helped focus my sound and made amplifying it (when necessary) much easier.
At least for me, most of that poopie got worked out on the stand, under fire (if you will). When I started to get some experience with rooms of different sizes, different stage setups, different instrumental makeups of the ensemble, I had a much better handle on what I needed to do with an amp to get to a workable sound. And when I started playing as much as I could without an amp, that REALLY helped focus my sound and made amplifying it (when necessary) much easier.
I also agree that home practice should be without an amp.
For rehearsals, if acoustic playing is not enough, then I suggest for upright, forget about buying an inexpensive practice amp and go right away for a high quality, small, light, portable solution for upright bass, like Acoustic Image, GK, and others. Pay once, cry once, enjoy the smiles from great gear all the other times. A great amp like that is just as light and easy to carry as a cheap "practice" amp, but it can also do so much more. Perhaps a micro-head and then different cabinets for the night, is more your style.
Inexpensive practice amps are excellent for bass guitar, but for upright they are redundant.
Yes, which means getting the proper professional amp to practice with, that we will use again in professional situations is the best way to go. Having a basic practice amp, and then a completely different amp for shows, negates a lot of what you wrote, doesn't it?
For us upright players, unlike electric, the expensive, better amplification solutions are usually the lighter and smaller ones too. Just more expensive (by a lot). Buy once, cry once.
You may have missed my earlier post. I use the same amp for everything. And on stage, I can use it either by itself for smaller venues, or I can use it as a personal monitor, or I can also mic it, and/or I can also split the signal and plug into the FOH at the same time. I've used it all of these ways and for the level of volume I need, it works fine.
And, just to restate my agreement since the topic is being discussed, when I use my amp for practice, it is exclusively to work on learning how best to adjust it... But,
Some good advice in the thread. As a military bassists I almost always used an amp for performance and yet I never used one for individual practice. Here are my ideas on the subject, all IMHO so YMMV.
I played in concert bands and big bands and used contact pickups. I experimented with mics, but was never able to get an amplified sound that was loud enough to meet my needs or provide enough isolation from the other instruments.
The only string bass specific mic I have a bit of direct experience with is the AMT one of my peers bought. It sounded fabulous when he was playing solo, but it developed feedback easily when the amp was turned up, and picked up way too much bleed from the cymbals to be usable even as a pickup for the PA.
If you're going to buy an amp, I agree with the buy once cry once approach. I wouldn't even consider something like a Rumble 25 unless you really only need to be modestly louder than a good string bass is acoustically. IMHO a Rumble 25 is a practice amp unsuitable for playing in an ensembles. Honestly a good string bass is going to be louder than a Roland Bass Cube RX. My Tacoma Thunderchief ABG is about as loud as the Cube.
If you want a natural sound, you need an amp that has a relatively flat response with extended high end. The upper mids are very critical especially if you will be bowing. An amp with a fairly powerful EQ is highly desirable IMHO. I'll explain more on this later.
Many pickups are piezo based. Piezos need to be loaded with proper impedance or the sound can be awful. The loading can be done with a buffer preamp that goes inline between the pickup and amp, or you can select an amp that provides an appropriate input impedance.
If the impedance is too low, the low frequency response will cut off too high, and the mids may sound quacky and harsh. If the impedance is too high, the low end response can go too deep and may be woofy and loose.
The ideal impedance for many piezo pickups falls somewhere between 1 and 3 meg ohms, but some are optimally loaded with a higher impedance. The ideal impedance varies by design, and if I understand correctly, the smaller the piezo element, the higher the input impedance needs to be to optimally load the pickup.
A flexible EQ becomes increasingly important as your volume requirements go up. At low volume, pretty much any amp will work to fill out the sound a bit. But as you increase volume, the non-linearity in the combined response of the bass and pickup become increasingly apparent. As volume is increased, eventually the sound will start to become noticeably uneven and then different frequencies will begin to feedback. This tendency can be controlled with notch filters and parametric EQ. Even one band of semi-parametric EQ can be very helpful, and two is even better.
My last touring rig used an Ashley Rack mixer. I chose the rack mixer because I switched between string bass, bass guitar, and electric upright bass. The rack mixer provided mute, EQ, and gain for each instrument. The EQ had bass, treble and one band of semi-parametric mids. It would have been nice to have one more band of semi-parametric mids. If I had that rig again, I might consider adding an Empress ParaEQ. I would use the mixer's tone controls for general tone shaping, and use the ParaEQ for dealing with problems that occur due the bad room acoustics or interaction between the amp and bass.
My local gig rig was a Gallien Krueger 700RB/112 combo. This amp actually worked pretty well with pizz and bowed string bass even though all of the EQ bands have fixed frequency centers. I am sure it would be even better with a ParaEQ.
I played in concert bands and big bands and used contact pickups. I experimented with mics, but was never able to get an amplified sound that was loud enough to meet my needs or provide enough isolation from the other instruments.
The only string bass specific mic I have a bit of direct experience with is the AMT one of my peers bought. It sounded fabulous when he was playing solo, but it developed feedback easily when the amp was turned up, and picked up way too much bleed from the cymbals to be usable even as a pickup for the PA.
If you're going to buy an amp, I agree with the buy once cry once approach. I wouldn't even consider something like a Rumble 25 unless you really only need to be modestly louder than a good string bass is acoustically. IMHO a Rumble 25 is a practice amp unsuitable for playing in an ensembles. Honestly a good string bass is going to be louder than a Roland Bass Cube RX. My Tacoma Thunderchief ABG is about as loud as the Cube.
If you want a natural sound, you need an amp that has a relatively flat response with extended high end. The upper mids are very critical especially if you will be bowing. An amp with a fairly powerful EQ is highly desirable IMHO. I'll explain more on this later.
Many pickups are piezo based. Piezos need to be loaded with proper impedance or the sound can be awful. The loading can be done with a buffer preamp that goes inline between the pickup and amp, or you can select an amp that provides an appropriate input impedance.
If the impedance is too low, the low frequency response will cut off too high, and the mids may sound quacky and harsh. If the impedance is too high, the low end response can go too deep and may be woofy and loose.
The ideal impedance for many piezo pickups falls somewhere between 1 and 3 meg ohms, but some are optimally loaded with a higher impedance. The ideal impedance varies by design, and if I understand correctly, the smaller the piezo element, the higher the input impedance needs to be to optimally load the pickup.
A flexible EQ becomes increasingly important as your volume requirements go up. At low volume, pretty much any amp will work to fill out the sound a bit. But as you increase volume, the non-linearity in the combined response of the bass and pickup become increasingly apparent. As volume is increased, eventually the sound will start to become noticeably uneven and then different frequencies will begin to feedback. This tendency can be controlled with notch filters and parametric EQ. Even one band of semi-parametric EQ can be very helpful, and two is even better.
My last touring rig used an Ashley Rack mixer. I chose the rack mixer because I switched between string bass, bass guitar, and electric upright bass. The rack mixer provided mute, EQ, and gain for each instrument. The EQ had bass, treble and one band of semi-parametric mids. It would have been nice to have one more band of semi-parametric mids. If I had that rig again, I might consider adding an Empress ParaEQ. I would use the mixer's tone controls for general tone shaping, and use the ParaEQ for dealing with problems that occur due the bad room acoustics or interaction between the amp and bass.
My local gig rig was a Gallien Krueger 700RB/112 combo. This amp actually worked pretty well with pizz and bowed string bass even though all of the EQ bands have fixed frequency centers. I am sure it would be even better with a ParaEQ.
