Dedicated Instruments for tunings

[micguy]

A bass tuned differently will always sound different. The frequency response of any given string on a bass is modified by the comb filter that the pickup position(s) add, and that filter changes when you re-tune the string - it's a wavelength filter, which... I'll skip the Physics lecture here, just know that you're not crazy thinking it sounds different. It does.

The string tension doesn't change because the strings "aren't used to it", it changes because to resonate at a lower pitch, any given string requires a lower tension. So, you need thicker strings to keep the same tension. Again, you're not imagining things - that's very real.

So, is keeping a bass tuned differently a good idea? In someways yes, but there is one what which gave me fits:

I have almost perfect pitch, and for a while I kept a bass tuned in D standard (with heavier strings) as my "low tuned" option. Sounds simple, keeps the same relative fingerings, but... my brain would hear "C" and attempt to play C where it "should" be - 3rd fret on the A string. But, on a D standard tuned bass, you don't have an A string, you have a G string - C is the 5th fret. After a protracted period of experimentation, it has become clear to me that my brain copes better with a 4/5 string transition (I still have a 4 string bass tuned the same, it just has another string added next to the other 4) than it does with moving up or down the fretboard to find "C". So, now my "low tuned" option is a 5 string. It was a long journey to the obvious solution for me; your results may or may not vary.

 

[nickpc]

I have a P-clone (Silvertone LB11) that I keep turned down a half step. It's rare that I play with that tuning anywhere but at home (although with the number of songs we do at church in Bb...), but I have that one to go to when I want to play stuff that requires that tuning.

Anything lower than Eb I play (or at least attempt to play) on my 5-string.

 

[micguy]

Besides, I've gone to nothing with a nut width more than 40mm for all my basses. I just don't want to fight huge, finger-cramping necks anymore.

Odd how things work. I have huge hands - small width necks give me finger cramps, big ones are easier and faster for me. I've toyed with the idea of making a 4 string on a 5 string neck for more string spacing.

 

[buldog5151bass]

God no. Not sure it would help much anyway unless I play everything up on the 4th fret.





That's where I was headed with this thread. I kind of "cleaned house" this last year and got rid of all but 2 instruments. All the others were more "student" quality and were no longer getting any attention. Not to mention they did not hold a candle the the two I kept in terms of tone and play-ability.

I would consider getting another one; even a MIM P-Bass just to set up as an Eb. But there there is the string issue and it sounds like they will have the same floppy feel anyway. For the record, I use rotosounds.




Honestly, I feel it more with the left hand than the right.





I might try a set of those.

The Digitech seems like a very nice option... I didn't know that was a thing.

Thanks all for the great suggestions.

Not sure what to say. I use Roto Swings on my Jazz (45-105), and occasionally have to tune to Eb. I barely notice the difference. Unless you are going to buy a nice instrument (which it sounds like you don't want to), you will have more of an issue dealing with an inferior instrument. I think the more you play at Eb, the less you will notice it.

 

[ZedLepp]

And then the next thing you know you're looking at buying your 10th bass because.........

 

[superheavyfunk]

I have almost perfect pitch, and for a while I kept a bass tuned in D standard (with heavier strings) as my "low tuned" option. Sounds simple, keeps the same relative fingerings, but... my brain would hear "C" and attempt to play C where it "should" be - 3rd fret on the A string. But, on a D standard tuned bass, you don't have an A string, you have a G string - C is the 5th fret.

You're not the only one around here that has said this exact thing and it's never made sense to me.

I don't [think I] have perfect pitch but I have had many years of experience playing instruments of all sorts... when I'm playing, I just listen to what's happening. I know the shapes across the neck - I know where the 7th is relative to the root, for example - regardless of whether the instrument is tuned in E standard or C standard. I really don't understand why this thing is a hang up for some folks. To me, it makes no difference at all after the first 1 minute of playing and realizing that I'm in whatever tuning.

Seriously, I'm genuinely curious why this is so difficult for some people - especially for those who claim to have perfect pitch. It would seem to me that if one's ear is perfect, then it really shouldn't matter at all how the instrument is tuned because one would immediately recognize the note they're playing, hear what's next and just hit it.

 

[Corevalay]

Not 100% necessary, but I prefer to do it if I can. Overall, I find the instrument just plays better when I'm not constantly tuning up and down. The one downside is now you're limiting the instrument you can use at certain times.

 

[micguy]

Seriously, I'm genuinely curious why this is so difficult for some people - especially for those who claim to have (near) perfect pitch. It would seem to me that if one's ear is perfect, then it really shouldn't matter at all how the instrument is tuned because one would immediately recognize the note they're playing, hear what's next and just hit it.

Blind people navigate the world by counting steps between landmarks in their world. Ray Charles (though he could probably afford nice hotels) always stayed at Holiday Inns - because the layout of the rooms (at least in that era) was the same, no matter where you went. There was an old joke about how Helen Keller's parents used to punish her - moving the furniture. As insensitive as that joke might be, it's true - if you're used to doing something without looking, re-arranging things makes it a lot harder. I play without looking at the fretboard much (again, LOTS of practice so I don't need to look to see where my fingers are) - I know where I'm going, I use my eyes to gather cues from other musicians, from the audience, etc. Move where the notes are on my fretboard, it's like re-arranging the furniture to a blind person.

Perfect pitch is relative pitch taken to the extreme. Relative pitch means you can figure out from where you are, how to get to the right note - you have some memory of where the right note, is, but it doesn't persist - you can adapt, because your memory is flexible. Perfect pitch means your memory is NOT flexible - it's not about where the note was a few seconds ago, it's always in the same place; you can't move it in your mind - it's THERE. If you played a virtual reality game, where things in the virtual world (what you're seeing) were exactly the same things as in the real world, but every thing was 10 feet North of where you saw it, you'd be bumping into things, and falling off ledges all the time. Pretty much the same thing in this case - I have a mental picture of where to go that doesn't change; by re-tuning the bass, someone has moved the real world on me.

 

[JFLbass]

For me, it's better to have a dedicated instrument in Eb... The setup of the instrument is different, truss rod adjustment and strings height. I have two Precision, one in Standard tuning with a Drop D, and one in Eb Tuning, with a drop D(C#). I use similar strings on both basses... Dr Lo Rider 45-105 for standard and 50-110 for Eb. I like the heavier gauge cause I'm using a lot my hipshot tune to C#! But I also have good result just using the same Lo Rider 45-105 and found them clause enough in feel! I often do it on my Jazz Bass! Like @TonyP- said, I found stainless steel strings having a better life to them, harmonics, precision in tuning when you dig in.

For me, a five strings is also a solution, but a song written in open E played in Eb doesn't sound the same on a five strings! An open string, it's a open string...

 

[superheavyfunk]

Blind people navigate the world by counting steps between landmarks in their world. Ray Charles (though he could probably afford nice hotels) always stayed at Holiday Inns - because the layout of the rooms (at least in that era) was the same, no matter where you went. There was an old joke about how Helen Keller's parents used to punish her - moving the furniture. As insensitive as that joke might be, it's true - if you're used to doing something without looking, re-arranging things makes it a lot harder. I play without looking at the fretboard much (again, LOTS of practice so I don't need to look to see where my fingers are) - I know where I'm going, I use my eyes to gather cues from other musicians, from the audience, etc. Move where the notes are on my fretboard, it's like re-arranging the furniture to a blind person.

Perfect pitch is relative pitch taken to the extreme. Relative pitch means you can figure out from where you are, how to get to the right note - you have some memory of where the right note, is, but it doesn't persist - you can adapt, because your memory is flexible. Perfect pitch means your memory is NOT flexible - it's not about where the note was a few seconds ago, it's always in the same place; you can't move it in your mind - it's THERE. If you played a virtual reality game, where things in the virtual world (what you're seeing) were exactly the same things as in the real world, but every thing was 10 feet North of where you saw it, you'd be bumping into things, and falling off ledges all the time. Pretty much the same thing in this case - I have a mental picture of where to go that doesn't change; by re-tuning the bass, someone has moved the real world on me.

That makes a lot of sense. I never thought of it that way. Thank you!

 

[Nedmundo]

I only use standard tuning for bass, but I do have a guitar I keep in Open G for guitar.
I mostly play in standard tuning on guitar as well.

Same here. One of my guitars is usually in open G, and I've kept my HH hardtail Strat largely because I can go between tunings more easily than I can with the S-types with tremolo bridges. My G&L Comanche stays in tune amazingly well under normal circumstances, but goes berserk when switching between tunings.

I used to use drop tuners on my fours to deal with low D and E flat, but now just use fives. I did play one gig when the guitarist and I tuned to E flat standard to make things easier on the vocalist, and I liked the heavy tone, but I didn't keep a specific bass dedicated to that tuning.

 

[micguy]

That makes a lot of sense. I never thought of it that way. Thank you!

I'm not sure I'm allowed to say this (being that we're on the internet and all), but I'll take a risk and say:

You're welcome.

 

[TheReceder]

Yep, I've got one long scale bass with a carbon fiber neck that I use specifically for one band that drop tunes a 1/2 step.

I think they get a little irate when I bring basses that they prefer to gigs with other bands, but they were the ones chose to drop tune. Next string change I'll be getting mediums to offset.

 

[micguy]

I think they get a little irate when I bring basses that they prefer to gigs with other bands

That's insane - how would you getting more familiar with a bass that they want you to play with them ever be a negative for them?

 

[DavC]

if you have a lighter touch with your plucking hand , Eb is OK ..

i play a bit to hard ,... so i went from ' Lite to MedLite ' gauge ... and setup bass accordingly ...
that was mostly to save my old voice .. !!

 

[iiipopes]

I agree with the OP. I have one band that over the decades the lead singer has now asked us to tune down to Eb. So yes, so I can leave my other basses where I like them setup, I have a dedicated bass to tune down: a Squier VM maple J-body with a Squier VM P-neck and DiMarzio Model J tuners. I string it with D'Addario EXL160BT's so the tension and flexibility tuned down is similar to my other basses at regular pitch.

 

[comatosedragon]

I do it. I have 2 basses tuned standard, one tuned E flat, and one tuned DGCF. Sunbeams on all, except GHS flats on one of the Standard tuning basses.

(I have never "played out", if that makes my response somehow less relevant)

 

[nilorius]

I'll just say it... I hate Eb tuning.... It feels like my bass just changes character, tone, and the strings just feel all loose and floppy. Not to mention the odd occasion I look down and I'm not fretting the note I am playing.

So I was thinking of dedicating 1 instrument full time to Eb tuning and putting on some new strings. My theory is they get stretched out on E tuning and feel loose and floppy when I tune down. So if I only have it tuned to Eb and never higher, the string will feel like they always have the proper tension. Yea? No?

So for stage performances, will have a dedicated instrument for each tuning, and then get a hip-shot for my E instrument for the 1 or 2 drop-D songs we play and just deal with 1 floppy string. The one D tuning song we occasionally play will just be tuning the Eb down

I know this is common for the stage but I am curious if anyone is 100% dedicating 1 or more instruments to special tuning to avoid floppy string syndrome?

There are no strings that would match your Eb satisfaction so live with E or 5 string B.

 

[Jackcrow]

My band plays in D standard tuning, so I have several basses dedicated to that. I find that dropping that low is enough to change the setup of the bass so I don’t like to tune back and forth. I do usually use different strings though. On my standard tunes basses I use DR Hi Beam 45-105. In D standard I use either Hi Beam 50-110 or DR Lo Riders (higher tension hex core).

 

[mrcbass]

You're not the only one around here that has said this exact thing and it's never made sense to me.

I don't [think I] have perfect pitch but I have had many years of experience playing instruments of all sorts... when I'm playing, I just listen to what's happening. I know the shapes across the neck - I know where the 7th is relative to the root, for example - regardless of whether the instrument is tuned in E standard or C standard. I really don't understand why this thing is a hang up for some folks. To me, it makes no difference at all after the first 1 minute of playing and realizing that I'm in whatever tuning.

Seriously, I'm genuinely curious why this is so difficult for some people - especially for those who claim to have perfect pitch. It would seem to me that if one's ear is perfect, then it really shouldn't matter at all how the instrument is tuned because one would immediately recognize the note they're playing, hear what's next and just hit it.

My mother has perfect pitch and it drives her mad when she's looking at a note on sheet music that doesn't correspond the sound she hears. She could never use the transpose function that newer electric keyboards have.

It doesn't bother my ear at all to play the written E in Eb tuning, but having difficulties with pitches that don't match the reference is a real thing for those with perfect pitch.