Deep Purple influence on Heavy Metal?

[58kites]

While I like Budgie a lot, they were very much trying to be Led Zeppelin on their first record.
Rodger Bain was producer for Budgie and Black Sabbath, so I hear some of Black Sabbath's sounds in Budgie's music too.

 

[silky smoove]

It's perfectly fine in Prog-Rock, but not Death-Metal. Blackwater Park has some piano, but it's not full-on organ music like Deep Purple.

Go listen to Opeth albums like Watershed, Ghost Reveries or Deliverance. Plenty of organ parts, and even standout ones like Lotus Eaters off of Watershed. It's not "organ music" but then again neither was Deep Purple which makes it a viable, apples-to-apples comparison. Regardless, no one is the arbiter of what is fine and what is not for a given genre.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I'll pass, Blackwater Park is weird enough & apparently it's their most celebrated album.
Of course there are arbiters of what goes together, they're called fans. (or non-fans if they don't agree with the mix)

If I already don't like organs in the Heavy Metal, I surely won't enjoy those Opeth albums.

I think Jon Lord's very powerful sounding organ rig could easily have contributed ominous sounds to some Black Sabbath songs.
When Black Sabbath did decide to start using keyboards, they would have been very lucky to get Jon Lord to do it because their keyboard work did not really add anything great.

Wait, what?!
Geoff Nichols did a great job & tastefully so. Lord would have overdone it & ruined Sabbath.
Have you even given the 7th Star album a listen?

 

[silky smoove]

I'll pass, Blackwater Park is weird enough & apparently it's their most celebrated album.
Of course there are arbiters of what goes together, they're called fans. (or non-fans if they don't agree with the mix)

If I already don't like organs in the Heavy Metal, I surely won't enjoy those Opeth albums.

Indeed, and the point isn't whether or not you enjoy it, it's to draw a distinction between enjoyment and allowance. Your post indicated that organs weren't allowed in death metal. That is objectively and evidently false as there are examples of organs in death metal, albeit not many.

As for fans being an arbiter of what's allowed; That's also objectively false. Fans simply dictate how commercially successful something will be, not whether or not it's allowed. The arbiter you're arguing for simply doesn't exist.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Organs are not allowed in the Music I listen to:

I am the Arbiter!

 

[silky smoove]

Organs are not allow in the Music I listen to, full-stop!
I AM the Arbiter!

Which was not reflected in the original post I responded to. You were speaking in general terms, so I replied in general terms.

Addendum: This point about you not digging organs would partially explain your negative bias towards DP being a heavy metal influence.

 

[bolophonic]

I have the exact same reaction whenever some dude starts trying to position themselves as an expert on “heavy metal” when all they really want to do is tell everyone how much they love Sabbath and Motörhead one more time.

 

[Mvilmany]

There would be no Yngwie Malmsteen...

That wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Yngwie is to guitar what Les Claypool is to bass

 

[primusfan1989]

If you can't understand, this conversation is over. You're just here to argue. I'm not biting anymore, have a good day!

You started a thread to dispute a fact....the fact being many of the people who created the genre in question cites them as an influence...but because you don't hear their influence...therefore they didn't influence any of the early metal bands???? (or that at least appears to be your logic)

Im not here to argue, Im only stating information that the music community at large agrees on which is self evident in this thread's replies. You're the one making the arguments against what everyone agrees.

 

[primusfan1989]

Rainbow was more Heavy Metal than DP.

Thats funny, Rainbow had organ too (keyboard stack Minimoog on top of Wurlitzer E Piano on top of Hammond organ)

 

[Michedelic]

I would only consider Mk I influential indirectly. Most metal guitar players at least 20-30 years ago were almost universally into Blackmore.

In 1990-2000, if you had mentioned Blackmore to a ‘metal player’, they would have said, “oh yeah, that’s some guy my dad told me about”, or, “didn’t he have something to do with Yngwie?”. They were more focused on Megadeth, Anthrax, Slayer, Metallica, etc., and everyone coming in after them.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Lita Ford learned directly from Blackmore & even started using the same home-plate shaped plectrums:

That was a fair bit earlier than 20 or 30 years ago, however.

 

[58kites]

Wait, what?!
Geoff Nichols did a great job & tastefully so. Lord would have overdone it & ruined Sabbath.
Have you even given the 7th Star album a listen?

You might be right, Jon Lord was a strong presence and may have ruined Sabbath.
I don't really care for any of the keyboard work I've heard on Sabbath records, but I don't like Sabbath with Dio either.
Certainly not without Geezer, that is not Sabbath at all, to me.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I don't like Sabbath with Dio

 

[58kites]

Oh yeah, I hate the way Dio sang.
I feel the same way about any/all of the rock/metal guys who sing in that style....Iron Maiden, Judas Priest...etc.
I'm not a big metal fan in general...not a fan of Slayer, Anthrax, most of Megadeth (a half dozen songs), I do like Metallica a lot.
I like Tool.

Not really a fan of a lot of hair metal either, I think there are some good rock bands that got lumped into the hair metal/metal category.

I'm 62 now so I land in that category of people that were kids during the 60's music era, and think 1965-75 as prime years developing my tastes in music.
At the same time, I was very happy to welcome in grunge and much of what has come after.
The years 1977-1987 had a lot of music I did not care for... they seemed like the years of synthetic excess.
I have a bunch of music from various artists/ bands that were the exception to my ears during those years.

 

[silky smoove]

Oh yeah, I hate the way Dio sang.
I feel the same way about any/all of the rock/metal guys who sing in that style....Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc.

I just watched “The Decline of Western Civilization Part 2” last night. In it I was introduced to the band London who I had never heard of previously. If you don’t like Dio’s singing, stay far far FAR away from this band. I have never heard someone doing such an obvious, and admittedly pretty accurate, facsimile of Dio’s voice. It was all
I could think about whenever they were on screen.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I'm not a big metal fan

Neither am I, but this is:

 

[zontar]

17-Jul-68
Hush is released:



kind of proving my point in the OP

That's Mk I--they were more Prog-rock/pop.
They changed vocalists as they wanted to get heavier.
Then MkIII was more funky and R&B-ish,
MkIV even more so.

But listen to In Rock, Fireball, Machine Head & Made in Japan--while not heavy metal necessarily--at times it was--and I can definitely see & hear the influence.

As for Jon Lord--he played keyboards as if he was a second guitarist.
If you want a straight keyboard part he can do that too.
But he was the heaviest keyboard player I have ever heard.

If you're comparing contemporary metal--maybe the influence isn't as obvious--but in the history of heavy metal--if you can't hear it, you ain't listening.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Ian Gillan did a great album with the real Heavy Metal band & his screaming was perfection:



I'm not overly worried about DP's influence, you can hear it on Metallic's "Kill'em All", Lars' drums sound like Highway Star for the whole album.
A documentary that comes out with DP & LZ right off as if they were the first Heavy Metal, now that's where I have an issue. Jimmy Page never even considered LZ to be Heavy Metal.
Yes, I met him, but TBH I didn't have that question on my mind at the time.